Hidden Goldmines – Uncovering Prime Development Sites with Mulisa Ndlovu from Mosros Property

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: As investors and developers, we see the world differently.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_00]: This podcast uncovers the untold truths of what it really takes to become a multi-million dollar residential developer.

[00:00:15] [SPEAKER_00]: On Nathan Battishall, let's get to work.

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, welcome to our latest episode of the Residential Developer Podcast.

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Nathan Battishall and I'm your host and we're really privileged to have

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Mulisa from Mosros Property. You would have seen that he was on a recent episode.

[00:00:34] [SPEAKER_00]: We had so much traction on that episode. It's such an important topic.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got him on to talk about some other matters.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00]: We want to talk about uncovering prime development sites.

[00:00:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So welcome back to the podcast, Mulisa.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Good day Nathan. How have you been?

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Good mate. Good. It's good to have you back on.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much. I appreciate it mate.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. You've obviously been flat out finding sites, looking for sites, dealing with vendors.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us a little bit about what you've been up to.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, busy as always mate. Getting a lot of traction.

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Things are getting a lot of busy. A lot of negotiations lately. Closing deals.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Just a lot of movement. A lot of back and forth movement.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And in terms of site finding, what sort of development sites are you finding?

[00:01:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So at the moment we're highly focused on duplex sites.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: C, D, C, D, A duplex sites that are about 200 metres closer to the water.

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Northern Warncown and in Sydney as well.

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_01]: And soon we'll be looking at the Shire as well. So we're expanding looking up.

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. And obviously there's been some exciting news in New South Wales,

[00:01:35] [SPEAKER_00]: especially the announcement of the low rise changes that the state government's

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00]: brought into effect which will enable duplexes to now be on 12 metre wide blocks,

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00]: 450 square metres opening up a whole bunch of new suburbs,

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: especially in Sydney where you haven't previously been able to do duplexes.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: The downside I guess is that they have to be DA at least for the next 12 months.

[00:01:59] [SPEAKER_00]: But the good thing is there's new areas opening and I know just from our conversations earlier

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that you mentioned that already you're seeing enquiries coming in in suburbs,

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00]: especially like areas of the northern beaches and Epping and areas where you

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_00]: believe in areas where the lot size was too large and now all of a sudden you can do duplexes on smaller lots.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I think this is something that should have been done a long time ago.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's already overdue but it's going to help the market a lot, right?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So we've been struggling with having a small pool of properties that can be developed.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is going to unlock much more potential into the area

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and hopefully in the future we'll be able to do them CDC.

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess from our previous episode where you came on, I guess DA generally equals a lot more delay

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and a lot more time but obviously speaking to you on that previous episode

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you discussed the power of actually often you can get large, longer delayed settlements.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: So just because it's DA and just because over the next 12 months some of these areas have to be DA

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_00]: doesn't necessarily mean that you can't go in with the strategy.

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right to get longer settlements?

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the strategy suits either way and one other thing, the CDC and DA thing,

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of people will hold on to having developments out of CDC.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's sometimes where properties suit a DA.

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So you'll be losing money if you're going to be doing them a CDC

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01]: where you can get a smaller garage, you're going to have to put a carport.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_01]: So in some areas you need to use the DA to unlock the full potential of the property

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: even though the approval might take extra four months.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You're making an extra $400,000, $500,000.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that extra $100,000 a month works out at the end.

[00:03:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Definitely and that's where it's important to know the numbers isn't it?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_00]: The strategy, the numbers.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_00]: What can add additional uplift to a property?

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and every area is different.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: I think we spoke about this last time.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So some areas you can get away with putting three bedroom properties.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Some areas that need to be four bedrooms.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really need to know which particular area you're dealing with

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and kind of let the area dictate what you've got to put there.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And look today I really want to hone in and talk a lot about location

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00]: because location is such a vital part of any investor or developer's journey.

[00:04:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously our audience are investors, developers or people passionate

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_00]: about doing investment and development.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Why is it important to really hone in on a location for let's just talk

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00]: about for today's sake, duplexes and townhouses?

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what is it about those type of projects?

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Why is location so crucial when it comes to developing these smaller projects?

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so locations pretty much the first thing before you can even move forward

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in say Cunha property is determining which location is actually feasible.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So most people see some locations that have a lot of duplexes,

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of townhouses, they see them going on and they chase these areas

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_01]: but the numbers most often don't work in many places.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's particular places that work where the end product is still demanding a good premium

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_01]: but the actual property you're going to have to buy the land is still cheap enough to be feasible.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So what I see happening a lot, so initially let's say you can buy a block of land

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: 600,000 square meters, a million dollars, you build the duplex

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and duplexes are selling for two million dollars.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So after a couple years those two million dollar duplexes,

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the price starts trickling down onto the land.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Now the land costs 1.5 million dollars but the duplexes are up maybe 2.1 million dollars.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So now they're not feasible.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So areas are feasible until they're not feasible.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really need to get a location when it's in its infant stages,

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: where it's feasible because it's only going to be feasible for some years.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: So location is a big deal.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's something you really need to look at because you can't move forward

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_01]: until you determine which location you're looking at.

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess you're right aren't you?

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes sadly some people are too late to the party.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They're too late to the party when it comes to sourcing a location

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that there might be a year or two years, three years, too late.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: As an example I had a client who would have met him just yesterday.

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So they've a particular area they've been looking at,

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: they're really one of this area.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I told them a while ago the area doesn't really work.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to sort of show them why it doesn't work

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_01]: because they came to me and said there's a lot of town halls,

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a lot of duplexes there.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you see this, most people have to realize

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01]: when you see this new duplexes, new townhouses

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_01]: these properties were bought mostly three years ago.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Different market, different prices.

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you see something getting built now was bought a long time ago.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So you need to get into places where you're in the early stages.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't be coming to something that's already established

[00:07:35] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's already priced high.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_01]: The new product price ends up trickling down to the old stuff.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Now everything ends up with a little money

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: and there's just no room to make money.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_01]: There's just no room.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, it'd be interesting to know

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_00]: have you got a couple of top factors,

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's a top three or some top factors

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that come into play when it comes to

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: what makes a location terrific or profitable

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: when it comes to doing duplexes, townhouses, smaller residential developers.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some top three factors that you've discovered

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: or some top factors that you've identified?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the main factor you want to look at is the end product.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's number one.

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't move further until that's done.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So you want to make sure the end product sells for a premium.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_01]: So we all know how much it's going to cost roughly to build it

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: but does the end product sell for high premium

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_01]: where it leaves enough room to make profit?

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_01]: That's number one.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_01]: But number two, you need to find out how much

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_01]: the average property they're sells for.

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_01]: If the average property they're sells for

[00:08:41] [SPEAKER_01]: costs enough to the end product,

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_01]: you most likely are not going to make much money.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's number two.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And the third thing, you need to find out

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_01]: how much of these properties even exist.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: If there's only about eight or five in this area,

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_01]: it's going to be a problem.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really need to find out those three things

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_01]: then you will know where to move.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: If it passes those three things, that area is fair game.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, excellent.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, it'd be good just to get a real life scenario.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Like have you got a...

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously you don't have to give us an address

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: but maybe a suburb or an area where you just had a...

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: location just played a massive role.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a game changer in terms of the success

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: of that development, the end product and profitability.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Like if you've got a product,

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: like a site you can talk about.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so I'll talk about a site in a particular area.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So the rules are great area.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I'll talk about this area a lot for now.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So their end products sell at a premium.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting duplexes through Redmond Street,

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: there's Redmond Avenue, Lawrence Hargrave,

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: those particular streets that are closer to the water

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_01]: and what property we're looking at on Harboard Street as well.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_01]: So very premium areas, right?

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So duplexes they are selling for $3 million and so on.

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And average properties are selling at $2 million.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So you're able to get a property anywhere in that area

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01]: for around $2 million which is the average market price.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So you don't have to underpay.

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_01]: You can pay the average market price

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and you can make great profit.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are areas where at the moment they're working.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Areas of the rule and Teraji is another great area,

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Austin Ma is a great area,

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Wunona those are great areas.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And what is it about,

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and obviously there's different locations across all of New South Wales,

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: especially on the East Coast.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what is it that,

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: what are some key factors that make locations terrific?

[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Like are we talking close to water, close to schools,

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_00]: close to shops, close to cafes.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some things that you've found like common trends across,

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously you do acquisition across all of New South Wales

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and even interstate.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some key things that you find make a site

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_00]: from a practical level?

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Number one is the proximity to the beach.

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That's number one.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And number two in Australia are views.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Views do a lot of the pricing.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing, third has to be close to a cafe.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Public transport, yeah, 50-50,

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but it has to be close to a cafe.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Schools, 50-50,

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: but if it's close to a great respect to school,

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: that raises the price, right?

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are really the main,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: those are the main, main things.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Proximity to the beach,

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: proximity to the city as well.

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You want the property to be close enough to the city.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So those things you can't go wrong with.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't go wrong in Australia.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But one other thing you also want to take into consideration,

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: you want to look at places where there's infrastructure.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So when you're purchasing,

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: you want to make sure it's a place that's going to hold value.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's particular things that are,

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_01]: that help place hold value.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Things such as hospitals, universities,

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: big schools and industries,

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: such as mines and so on.

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are things that are very hard to get rid of.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to get to close down a main hospital.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to close down a university.

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So you understand these things are most likely going to be here in 30 years.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to close down big industries,

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_01]: big mining towns, mining cities.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_01]: So everything kind of gets built around that.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are the places that kind of determine

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: what value is going to be there in 30 years from now,

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_01]: 20 years from now.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember hearing a really good saying once.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's so true isn't it?

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Like have a look at where the local government,

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_00]: the state government, the federal government is spending money.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_00]: So if they're spending money there,

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00]: there's a good chance you should be spending money there too.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They've obviously seen potential in those areas.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:13:13] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's an important sphere.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess another thing,

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: important thing to look at as well is the strategy

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: of your development too because you might be,

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, you might be looking to sell both of your products

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: right away.

[00:13:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So the strategy involved then is obviously

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you need to target a location.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm guessing where you need to get the best price tomorrow.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas you might have a long-term strategy.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_00]: You might have targeted an area where capital growth is amazing

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: where the history might show that that particular suburb

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_00]: or that particular location virtually doubles every 10 years,

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_00]: for example, on average.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking to hold for 10 years,

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00]: well sometimes it's looking at,

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_00]: if your strategy is to hold for long term,

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you can look at the capital growth strategy too I guess.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like is that something you've got a lot of clients

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: that play, they're thinking that way in mind too.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Like is it a long-term hold or is it a short-term sell?

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Most of the clients work with a short term,

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: not the long-term holds.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We're in the business of making them,

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: helping clients make money,

[00:14:20] [SPEAKER_01]: build cash flow and money and so on.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So most of the people would deal with,

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: they want to make money in the next year,

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_01]: year after year and keep it growing, right?

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So most people would deal with it.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously a lot of times we talk about

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what makes a location good,

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: but I think it's just as important for investors and developers

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to know what makes a location bad as well

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: because for me that's just as important,

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: if not more important,

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_00]: to avoid securing a site in a bad location.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what are some things that you're looking for?

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some things that obviously from a profitability perspective

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: but also a practical level,

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_00]: what are things that you find?

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Make an area or a site or a street

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_00]: or a parcel of land bad.

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_00]: What makes the location bad that can impact profit?

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so there's multiple things that can make it bad

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's also subjective to what you're trying to do.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's some areas where you really need to do great research

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: on a particular area and know what you're trying to do.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're end product, some places they're good for duplexes.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's look at a place like Coralmo, right?

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It's Coralmo.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_01]: They're great for townhouses, not as great for duplexes.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really need to know what you're putting there

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_01]: because I could determine it could be bad for duplex

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_01]: but it could be good for a townhouse.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, you want to make sure it's not places that have too many trees

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_01]: aside with a lot of trees that's problematic.

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_01]: In Wollongong we know sites that are slanted backwards,

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a big no-no.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You also want to avoid sites out of bus stops

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_01]: right at the very front.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_01]: You want to avoid sites that are right next to a shopping mall.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You want to avoid sites that are right in front of highways,

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_01]: major traffic and so on.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Also, one other thing that it does matter is just a fact of it.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: A little government housing does lower the price

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_01]: on areas or on particular areas.

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_01]: So not in every area but in particular areas it does.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So those are some things you really need to look out for

[00:16:44] [SPEAKER_01]: in particular areas.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess if you haven't driven down that straight

[00:16:50] [SPEAKER_00]: done a bit more research sometimes you can miss that.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Also some areas there's just not much infrastructure.

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_01]: There's places with terrible infrastructure,

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_01]: terrible stormwater, places that flood all the time.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: They've got bad streets, potholes everywhere,

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: trees everywhere and just the properties around that whole area

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: are not quite looked after.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So what your end product needs to fit in where you're putting it,

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: you can't put a $10 million mansion in the middle of a housing state.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So it matters what you're trying to put in a particular area.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess to people go down as far as looking at things like

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_00]: crime rates, unemployment rates or that sort of thing too.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, crime rate, yes, unemployment rate.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So those usually go hand in hand with housing areas and so on.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But there's some areas with high crime rate where it's best to stay away from.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is the thing, these areas change a lot.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So there's some areas that were let's talk hypothetically,

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01]: let's talk about places near Glebe here,

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: this is from the city just near the city in Redford,

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_01]: places like Redford.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Redford was a low income area, right?

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Crime-ridden area.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Look at it now.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, gentrified, beautiful.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, look at it now.

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a place that's almost impossible to buy into.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes you just don't know, it's a gamble,

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but you'd want to do your research and kind of know what's coming in the future.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Before you buy an area, kind of at least be able to tell

[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: what's going to happen in the near future,

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: the next couple years, three or four years at the least.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I guess that's another thing, isn't it?

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the government start spending money in certain areas,

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_00]: you start to see early adoption of infrastructure,

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00]: gentrification, beautification of certain areas.

[00:19:01] [SPEAKER_00]: You can really start to see things come to life.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: You've only got to look at King's Cross.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember as a young bloke going to King's Cross,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: nightclubs and everything when I was young,

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: and you go there now, it's just trendy.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Everything's trendy.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: It's trendy cafes, apartments,

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_00]: like it's just completely changed, but you're right.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be,

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_00]: you've really got to make sure you do your research

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and you know what you're dealing with in that area.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And usually when you make them, they can cost you dearly.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really need to make sure you cross your X's and Y's

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and just make sure you know what you're doing.

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we might jump into a little bit of rapid fire.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Just some things that come straight to mind.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no right or wrong answer, so to speak.

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just basically, well, this is just giving us

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00]: just some of his thoughts.

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one was,

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: now what's the first thing you look for?

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_00]: First thing you look for in a potential development site.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Go.

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_01]: The very first thing I look for is the market research in the area,

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the end product.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the end product price, what it sells for.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some top suburbs in New South Wales at the moment

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: for small developments?

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I love the rule.

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I love Austin Ma, I love Toraji.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And the Shire, places in the Shire.

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I love, they say,

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Montreville Eastwood.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love those areas.

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the most common mistake developments make

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: regarding your location?

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Not doing market research and overpaying.

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_00]: And what's your current favorite tool,

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: online tool or tool that you use for market research?

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_01]: At the moment, like,

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_01]: several look.

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_00]: We can tell us all the tools you currently use.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll say, I use Domain Price Finder,

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Acosta, Stash, CDC Finder,

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: really step.com.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: I use a lot of them.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So you got a few tools in the toolkit?

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: And what's one piece of advice for new developers

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: starting out when it comes to location?

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01]: It's research, research.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_01]: Really know the markets, know what you can put there.

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You know the end product and know the difference

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_01]: between the end product and your starting point.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_00]: That's brilliant.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, what are some tips you can give listeners,

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: whether it be experienced developers, investors

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: or first-timers?

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some thoughts you can share, I guess now?

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_00]: They can basically about choosing the right location

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: for their next project.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some tips that you can give them?

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Like some practical tips,

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_00]: like a little toolbox of tips that they could do

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: off the back of this podcast.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_00]: They can implement these things

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_00]: and begin the process of finding a site.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so when you're finding sites,

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: don't follow what...

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Try to do your own research.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Do a lot of calling.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't look at the numbers that are online as such.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So I know a lot of people see properties selling

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_01]: on all homes and so on.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of them actually don't even sell on market.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say call the agents to actually find out

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_01]: what's going on in this particular areas.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01]: And also just look at areas where the end...

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I keep saying it's the end product.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Look at the areas where the end product sells

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_01]: at a premium because it costs the same to build

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_01]: in a place where you're going to sell for $2 million

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_01]: compared to a place where you're going to sell

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_01]: a property for $4 million.

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_01]: It costs the same for the build, right?

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: So just find an area where the end product sells

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_01]: for a lot and just make sure the average property

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: sells for a lot less.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: But these really are simple as that.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And like some people get set on a location,

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_00]: but the location doesn't always stack up and work.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how would you help someone who maybe is a little bit

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_00]: emotionally invested in a particular area

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_00]: that yes it might be a nice area,

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but the numbers just don't work.

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how would you help someone navigate their way

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: out of that place?

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you've had clients who've maybe been a little...

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Had their blinkers on or they've had their rose-coloured

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_00]: glasses on looking at a suburb maybe because they grew

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_00]: up there or they got good memories there

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: or they went on holidays to that particular place,

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_00]: but it just doesn't stack up.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how would you help someone,

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_00]: I guess, navigate that emotionally?

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So the best thing I do is I go through the numbers

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01]: with them and you have to honestly do the numbers.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you try to lie to yourself when you do this,

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you're going to pay for it.

[00:23:46] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no winning when you're cutting shortcuts on numbers.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: So the best thing is really look at the numbers.

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_01]: The numbers won't lie. They'll tell you.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They'll tell you straight away.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So really do the numbers, but don't try to push

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: something to work.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't be emotionally attached to an area

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: because as soon as you're emotionally attached

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: to an idea, it's much harder to let it go

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_01]: even if it doesn't work.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So just try avoiding being in that situation.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_01]: If you find yourself in that situation,

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: really just take a look back

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_01]: and think what would someone else who's smarter than me

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_01]: do about this situation?

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So just look at it from a different perspective.

[00:24:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Look at a third person perspective.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Say, okay, this is my situation.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I think of this area,

[00:24:31] [SPEAKER_01]: but what would someone else who's more intelligent than me

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: think of this situation?

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And just do that.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant. Love it.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. Well, look what we might jump into

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_00]: our development shark tank.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought what we might do,

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: we might just change it up today.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about one deal that didn't go ahead.

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about the Lawrence Hargrove site.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: It looked good.

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The numbers stacked up.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Amazing site. Amazing location.

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_00]: But obviously we identified some things on the site

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00]: before the client purchased it,

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: which is great.

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Means they didn't buy a headache.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Then I want to talk about the Sturdy Street to Roggy deal

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that's going ahead.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a cracker. It's a good deal.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it hits over the 20%.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_00]: We've got so many clients that are happy to hit 15.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Anything over 20 is brilliant.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: But you know,

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00]: we've got a lot of clients happy to do 15, 16, 17, 18.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_00]: When you get these ones over 20, they're terrific.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00]: So what we might do,

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_00]: let's talk about the through all site first.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's just talk through that one.

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're able to negotiate on that site.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Tell us a little bit about that one.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that was a beautiful site.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So we had it at $2 million.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: It's got awesome views from the back.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally a stone throw away from the beach

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and the property.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful, beautiful sizing, right?

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And we've got it at 12 months settlement.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Great settlement. Great terms.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Amazing property.

[00:26:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So it looks great. It's got drainage from the front.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything looks good, but this is where it's very important

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: to have a due diligence period or some sort of period

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_01]: before you actually put deposit down

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and you exchange unconditionally.

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to have a little bit of time

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_01]: to spend a little bit of money and to do some research.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So on that particular property, everything looks good.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: From top, it looks good,

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_01]: but there's a waterway running through under the back.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can't sit with your own eyes,

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: but there is a waterway running underground there.

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_00]: So until you buy a couple of reports in that case,

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_00]: until we're able to buy some of the reports,

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: we could then do some studies

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_00]: and engage a flood engineer to identify

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that we had a watercourse that actually caused

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_00]: some potentially pretty severe flooding issues.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's probably a fight to get it approved,

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_00]: but you're probably looking at a really...

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_00]: it's a touch-and-go one,

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: whether we'd be able to get a dual occupancy,

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: let alone a subdivision on the side.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a fight you don't want to take.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's it.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess the reason I like to talk about deals that don't work

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_00]: because I think it's important for investors and developers

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: to understand that there are strategies out there

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: to avoid buying a headache.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Week in, week out, I see where people have bought a headache.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And I love your strategy because you're dealing off market.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_00]: You're going completely off market.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Investors and developers aren't competing with 10, 15, 20 other buyers.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're able to get that due diligence period, as you mentioned,

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_00]: where the client can then go and spend just a little bit of money,

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: not too much, but enough to be able to do their due diligence.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like would you rather spend $1,000 or a couple of grand to avoid a headache?

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Or would you rather not spend that couple of grand

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: and then buy a site for $2 million, you can't develop?

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, lose hundreds of thousands.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.

[00:28:10] [SPEAKER_01]: Which happens a lot.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:28:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Which happens quite a lot.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So we just...

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't talk about side-side on work,

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_01]: we just had a fellow who just did it help up in Gennwin of a site.

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So he bought this property for $1.4 million a couple years ago.

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_01]: You got a DA on it for Duplex and he knocked the property down.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: They started to do development, so they knocked it down.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But then he came to me to see if I could help him.

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking at the property, I'm thinking,

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_01]: hmm, the only way it works is really if you're paying $600,000.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Right?

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And back then maybe you could have gone ahead,

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: got away with paying $900,000

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_01]: because construction fees were still a little bit lower, right?

[00:28:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But now probably $600,000.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is knocked the house down.

[00:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: So you can't renovate the houses, sell it as a house,

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and equip maybe $1.1 million.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Now it just appears to learn.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So this happens a lot, by the way.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is not a rare occasion, rare situation.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_01]: This is 90% of the time people buy properties that are overpriced.

[00:29:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: It happens a lot.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So most people don't do their numbers well,

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: they'll just look at a property and go,

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm paying $1 million for the property.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I can buy, build a Duplex and so forth.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_01]: 1.5 million dollars each.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I've made $500,000 profit.

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work that way.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work that way.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Now I like that.

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me, like looking at those sites that don't work

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: like this one at Thiruul, the numbers stacked up.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00]: The price was great.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_00]: The end profit would have been great.

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_00]: There was great terms on the property,

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_00]: but there was this constraint and it involved a lot of risk.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And the beauty is by having that due diligence period of time,

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the client was able to spend a little bit of money,

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_00]: get the advice and then was able to make a,

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_00]: take the, strip the emotion out of it.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_00]: Because it would be easy.

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And I like, I went on that site, you went on that site.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It would be easy to be at that site and just get full,

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely in love with it.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking like, you know, 120 metres and you're down

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_00]: on the main beach at Thiruul.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful site.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it faced sort of northeast.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So it had a perfect aspect.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: There were so many things to love about it.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But I love the fact that the client was able to strip away

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_00]: the emotion, look at it through the eyes and the lens

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_00]: of a business decision and basically strip the emotion away

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and realise, hey, do I want to fight this battle?

[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Do I want to go through the stress?

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Do I want to go through the headaches on a site that may

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: never be able to be subdivided?

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess it was a good feeling to see that client

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, we were able to help them navigate,

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00]: not buying a headache.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It's disappointing, isn't it?

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's disappointing when you look at the numbers.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: It is.

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_00]: But then I've gotten something great.

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_00]: And there's always another property.

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And this is something I'll always be saying to investors

[00:31:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and developers like, if you're patient,

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_00]: if you play the long game, like too many people,

[00:31:26] [SPEAKER_00]: they want everything quick now.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Like we live in a microwave generation.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So everything's now, now, now.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_00]: But by playing the patient game, they've now got a site

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a lot, you know, no headaches.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_00]: This one's even CDC, so it's faster.

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Much better.

[00:31:42] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't hit the same numbers,

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but it still hits incredible numbers.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_00]: But they can go to sleep at night knowing that not

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00]: stressing whether they're going to get an approval or

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_00]: stressing whether this thing will get off the ground.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I just think that that's smart.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the modern day smart investor,

[00:32:00] [SPEAKER_00]: the modern day smart developer.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's talk about a deal that worked.

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We obviously spoke about one last month.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about a deal.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that deal on Sturdy Street.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So tell us a little bit about this one on Sturdy Street

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in Terroji for those who don't know.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So Sturdy Street is one of the premium areas of Terroji.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's such a way that this street takes you to a park

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: straight to the beach.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_01]: You're not crossing any main roads.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01]: It's just in a beautiful placement, right?

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: So this property is CDC.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: There's a CDC duplex.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no need for a DA and properties priced well.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got it just below market value of 1.15.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Got it at great terms, 10 month settlement period.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So it gives more than enough time to get the...

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And the client wanted less time.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So we had to negotiate that the vendor wanted to do 12 months or more.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: So we really had to try and the client wanted six months.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to middle of the middle at 10 months.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So 10 months settlement period and we get to get our CDC in the meantime.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's beautiful, 5% deposit.

[00:33:17] Yeah.

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful deal.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Numbers at 23% profit investment.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: This is conservative as well.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And by the time it's done, the duplexes will be sell for a lot more in that area.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_00]: That's it.

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a cracking site and yeah, for me, I look at that and it was, you know,

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: probably over 100K less than market value.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: When I say market value, like often that market value sometimes at an auction

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_00]: or when there's a lot of interest,

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: especially if builders are going for it as well,

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: they can often pay a little bit more.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_00]: They can even go sometimes up to 1.3

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_00]: because they can run at smaller margins for their development.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where it's terrific, wasn't it?

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Like to get those sort of terms and that 10 months is great

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_00]: because you can not only execute the design,

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_00]: execute the approval on the site,

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00]: but you give yourself sort of a buffer period of time to finalize the builder,

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_00]: make sure the builder, because this is the thing.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes people get an approval,

[00:34:20] [SPEAKER_00]: but it doesn't necessarily mean the builder's ready to start.

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00]: The builder may not be quite ready.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_00]: They might be two months away from starting.

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So by getting the 10 months then,

[00:34:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you can pre-prepare your builder saying,

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00]: hey, we want to start this virtually as soon as we've basically

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_00]: settled on the property.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_00]: So if we settle in 10 months,

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00]: you can just reverse engineer the numbers and work backwards.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So you're not paying all that interest on a property for one month,

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_00]: two months, three months, four months before the builder can start.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's brilliant, isn't it?

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Like in terms of from a planning point of view.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That's perfect.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's as good for situations as you can get.

[00:35:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And these are rare situations

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_01]: because mostly times you're trying to make things work.

[00:35:06] [SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to use your intelligence, right?

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_01]: To see something that the average person won't be able to see.

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So most people will walk past other properties

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's something that they can't see.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about actually the one we talked about last time,

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Evan Street.

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of market comparison

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's not many sales in that area.

[00:35:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's not many duplexes in the area.

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of them sold off-market.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So the only way to find out is to make calls

[00:35:37] [SPEAKER_01]: to the people who saw the properties off-market

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: and calls to the haters.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Then you know how much a duplex in that area costs.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people walk past these properties

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_01]: because they just don't see the comparables.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_01]: But then I understand that this area costs a lot of money.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So with this one, everything was just there.

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's one of those very simple straightforward properties.

[00:36:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously today we're honing in very much on location.

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like what was it about this sturdy stream?

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some things in terms of location?

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_00]: What are we talking like how far from the beach?

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_00]: How far from the park?

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_01]: So the first thing, the property was about say

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: 500 meters away from the beach if that.

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So that was the very, very first thing I'm going to look at the property.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And it also wasn't close to any main roads.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_01]: It didn't have any trees on it.

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: It was sloped to the front.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01]: The location was great.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It was also not facing a bit.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_01]: There was just, it was perfect.

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_01]: That's as good of a location to get.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And one other thing it had duplexes around that have just been done.

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Two doors down across the road.

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_01]: So there was the end product was already getting sold in that area.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: So really good comparables.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Really able to get really good data.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And that site was terrific too because it was so flat.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's one good thing about a lot of parts like that area.

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Terogy.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of areas where we can do developments, duplexes, townhouses

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_00]: where you're dealing with a lot of sloping blocks.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Even though it may drain to the front for stormwater perspective

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you're dealing with a lot of excavation.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00]: You're dealing with a lot of site costs that can actually blow

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: really jack up the price of a development.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So this site was terrific because it's dead flat.

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's got a very gentle slope to the front but we're talking like

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_00]: so flat that you can just do a really simple, you know,

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_00]: conventional waffle pod slab system.

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just nice and clean.

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, there was no native trees.

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_00]: There was no trees that were going to cause issues.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: There was one small tree that was on the exempt species list

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_00]: which meant that it can be taken out without any form of approval.

[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_00]: It was under the threshold and the height.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_00]: So like it was just a really nice clean site for the client.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Like you said, delayed settlement, great price, hits good numbers

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: with conservative figures, just a cracking deal.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Beautiful.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: I love more of them.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's it.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_01]: More and more.

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_00]: For sure.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well look, in terms of, look, just to wrap us up really,

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like, have you got any final insights or anything I guess you want to

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_00]: speak into from the perspective of location because obviously,

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know, location is so vital, so important when it comes to

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_00]: small investment development based projects across New South Wales.

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like have you got some tips or some final insights or just

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_00]: some wisdom that you can share that can give value, you know,

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_00]: to people listening to this podcast, listening to this episode

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_00]: who are literally, you know, next week or next month

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00]: or in the next little period of time are ready to go and hunt down

[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: their next site or ready to engage someone like yourself

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_00]: or deal with an agent or deal with a buyer's agent or, you know,

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_00]: someone who's ready to go and hunt down their next site.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, just go freestyle and just speak into, you know,

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: give them some practical now tips of what they can take home

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_00]: or what they can apply right off the back of this.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So something to apply right off the back of this is you having

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_01]: to look at the price of the end product.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_01]: I've said this before, now said again, the end product is going

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_01]: to determine what can be done in the area.

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say hypothetically, you're looking for townhouses.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Go look for areas where townhouses sell at a minimum

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01]: of maybe $1 million, $1.3, $800,000.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_01]: If that's the price, now you got to build maybe five,

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_01]: six townhouses to be feasible.

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So look at areas where you can pay, sell an end product

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of $1.2 for townhouses.

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Duplexes, look for areas where you can sell duplexes

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_01]: for a minimum of $2 million each.

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So look for these particular areas and then once you

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_01]: found them, look for the average price of the property.

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's say you find a place where duplexes sell

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_01]: for $2 million, the average property price sells

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for $1 million, $1.2, even $1.3, those areas work.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what you're going to look at.

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_01]: So just look at the end product then look at the cost

[00:40:22] [SPEAKER_01]: of the average property then they'll determine

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_01]: what can be done in the area and which areas work.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent. And look just lastly, I'm just listening

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_00]: to your talk, it jumped out at me and I think it's

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_00]: an important question because I hear a lot of it.

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_00]: It's important for people to obviously know

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_00]: what their borrowing capacity is and what their capacity

[00:40:41] [SPEAKER_00]: is to buy land plus all the costs.

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Like do you find sometimes people are looking in areas,

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's just, it's not feasible.

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're factoring in the land, that's all well and good

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_00]: but then they're factoring in building a duplex

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_00]: or building a townhouse development for an unrealistic

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_00]: price when essentially what they need to be doing

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_00]: is reverse engineering their numbers and going back

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_00]: and saying okay realistically the suburbs I'm looking

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: in the locations I'm looking in are not feasible

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_00]: for my budget, they're not feasible for my capacity

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_00]: of what I can currently spend and then going

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and like how does someone research?

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say someone hasn't got the ability to go do a site

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_00]: for example where they can effectively sell a duplex

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_00]: each side for two mil.

[00:41:28] [SPEAKER_00]: What are some tips you can give someone in terms

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_00]: of like let's just say they've got,

[00:41:33] [SPEAKER_00]: let's just say they've got 2.5 to spend total land plus build.

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Like how do you find, what's the best place to start

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_00]: for someone to then go and identify what profitable areas

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: they can then locate within that capacity

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_00]: of what they can currently spend?

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay so if they happen to have got 2.5 or so to spend

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_01]: then they need to find out what,

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_01]: if they want to find out how much they can spend

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and which area they can pretty much,

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_01]: let's say buy into, they need to find out

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_01]: how much it's going to cost to do a build roughly

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's pretty much going to be the same

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_01]: in which area you look at, in every area you look at.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah depending on the spec of the build

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and what's on the ground.

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly so if they've got roughly let's say about 2.5

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_01]: let's say the build is roughly going to cost 1.5

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_01]: for let's say for both, the build is going to cost 1.5

[00:42:34] [SPEAKER_01]: they've got about a million dollars roughly left

[00:42:37] [SPEAKER_01]: so let's say really that they can purchase in an area

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01]: they can purchase for around $900,000 right?

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_01]: So now they have to find a place where end product

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01]: can sell for around 1.8, 1.9.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to work it backwards.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to work it backwards

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and also live a little bit of room,

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_01]: live a little bit of buffer to go around.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_01]: If you push yourself to the edge,

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_01]: once your calculations you're going to go over

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_01]: by a little bit right?

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So always leave a little bit of buffer

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_01]: for things to go around

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_01]: because where things can grow they usually do.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and the beauty of like a jeeplex for example

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_00]: is a little bit different obviously with townhouses

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_00]: you're taking on a lot more risk.

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: The beauty of a jeeplex it's a very low risk.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's quite a low risk development

[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: so you can quite often lower your margins a bit.

[00:43:29] [SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes people have these unrealistic margins

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_00]: where they're expecting, every now and then

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you'll hit a jackpot or you'll hit a goldmine

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_00]: but generally I find a lot of people

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: that are making good money doing low risk

[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_00]: doing 18% sort of thing.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes you're going to find some bigger ones

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_00]: but there's some really good deals

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_00]: if you do your research right isn't there like where

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you've got to also make sure your margin

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and your expectation is realistic.

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Because essentially that's where you get people

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_00]: trying to get land for an impossible price

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_00]: or you get people expecting a builder to build a product

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00]: a $1.5 million build for $1.1 or $1.2

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_00]: and it just doesn't happen like it doesn't work.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The reality was that their margin was unrealistic

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00]: or they paid too much for the side.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes so that comes with thinking emotionally

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: falling in love with the idea.

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So just let the numbers do the work

[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: and make sure you don't play with the numbers

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_01]: because it's only going to hurt you at the end.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So you have to be truthful with the numbers

[00:44:37] [SPEAKER_01]: it's going to benefit you

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_01]: and understand there's a lot of love

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: with the 20% profit investment thing

[00:44:43] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a lot of love for that

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: but that was more for standard

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01]: when years ago when the construction fees were much lower

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_01]: so you could buy 20% profit investment sites

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: anywhere on the market.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_01]: That's almost you find them now

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_01]: but you have to be intentionally looking for these things

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's going to take time right.

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of people are working at even

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01]: 15-60% profit investment

[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_01]: if you just keep looking for this 20% profit investment

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_01]: you might take a year before you get your next deal.

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_01]: So you really have to be realistic

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: on what's actually there

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: you really have to be realistic with your numbers.

[00:45:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Excellent.

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well mate it's been good to get you back on

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_00]: you've always got a huge amount of wisdom and insight

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: knowledge and we'll be definitely putting

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: your information on how to contact you

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_00]: on the show notes so thanks again for coming in.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Lovely mate, love it.

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Wonderful.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Well thanks everyone for listening in

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you got a lot of value out of this location

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_00]: it's so vital and so important

[00:45:47] [SPEAKER_00]: when finding your next development site.

[00:45:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So look all of Melissa's information

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: at Myceloth's property is going to be in the show notes

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_00]: make sure you reach out to him

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_00]: if you need hand for land acquisition

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_00]: looking at a site, looking at research

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_00]: or want some insight knowledge

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Melissa's always willing and happy

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_00]: to give insightful information into that

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: so look if you enjoyed this episode

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_00]: feel free to share it with friends, family, colleagues

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_00]: or fellow investors and developers

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_00]: and once again don't forget to like and subscribe

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_00]: on all of our channels

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_00]: and thanks for listening

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_00]: and look forward to chatting with you again next week.