Blueprint for Real Estate Development Success with Mark Spinelli of Innovate Property Group

[00:00:00] As investors and developers, we see the world differently.

[00:00:04] This podcast uncovers the untold truths of what it really takes to become a multi-million dollar residential developer.

[00:00:14] On Nathan Battishall, let's get to work.

[00:00:18] Well, welcome to another episode of the Residential Developer Podcast.

[00:00:22] I'm the host. My name is Nathan Battishall.

[00:00:24] And I'm really privileged today to have an incredible guest with me, Mark Spinelli.

[00:00:30] He's the director and principal of Innovate Property Group.

[00:00:33] He's a real estate agent.

[00:00:35] He specializes in really nice projects like he works with developers, investors, mum and dad builder developers,

[00:00:43] really specializes in Duplex's townhouses, projects and also apartments all over the Ilawara and on the south coast.

[00:00:52] So it's good to have you with me in the podcast studio, Mark.

[00:00:55] Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:00:56] Good to have you.

[00:00:56] Look, I guess just for the sake of our audience, obviously, our audience who listened to this podcast are investors,

[00:01:03] developers, builder developers, mum and dad investors doing projects all across New South Wales.

[00:01:08] Do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself, your journey?

[00:01:11] What got you into sort of in that space of being an agent, but more so than that?

[00:01:17] What sort of made you decide to niche into doing projects?

[00:01:21] Yeah, I guess started early on.

[00:01:23] I just had a love for projects.

[00:01:27] I think at high school, I dreamed of selling apartments, brand new apartments,

[00:01:33] I was and yeah, from there I got into direct sales.

[00:01:36] So I was traveling around Australia selling products.

[00:01:39] And then yeah, I always wanted to do real estate.

[00:01:43] And when I got into the game, I started off selling apartments off the plan.

[00:01:48] So that's how I started off in real estate.

[00:01:51] So we're selling 100 unit blocks, 200 unit blocks and just kind of learned the knack of how to help people

[00:01:57] to get their head around purchasing off the plan and feeling comfortable with doing that.

[00:02:03] Yeah, great.

[00:02:04] So how long you been in real estate agent?

[00:02:07] How long yeah.

[00:02:08] Yes, I've done real estate for 18 years now.

[00:02:11] And I think it's got to a point after probably about 14, 15 years where I didn't want to do properties

[00:02:17] that didn't have any potential.

[00:02:20] So I just found that it was getting a bit boring mundane.

[00:02:23] And so I wanted to niche into what I really love and that's in the project space

[00:02:27] and helping clients from first timers to experience developers and builders

[00:02:32] to do successful projects and nicer ones too.

[00:02:36] So obviously profitable.

[00:02:39] Yeah, yeah.

[00:02:40] Yeah, that's a big key isn't it?

[00:02:41] And I think having an agent working with an agent who understands obviously you want to sell the project

[00:02:50] in a timely fashion but also like you just said profitable projects are very key.

[00:02:57] Yeah, and I think one thing we kind of niched in early on was the off the plan process

[00:03:02] which is totally different to selling normal residential houses.

[00:03:06] You really got to take the purchases on a journey of knowing the location, the lifestyle

[00:03:13] really feeling comfortable with the builder and developer that they're purchasing from.

[00:03:18] And walking them through the plans and helping picture what the finished product actually will be

[00:03:24] because we're kind of looking at the in-air but when we show the plans

[00:03:30] and walk them through each step of the way we want them to feel educated

[00:03:35] and confident in their purchase.

[00:03:37] Yeah, yeah.

[00:03:38] So in terms of your business, so you said like you said you niche from,

[00:03:44] you went from just sort of being doing real estate in a general sense

[00:03:49] or like your typical real estate agent but really decided to niche down

[00:03:53] and become a specialist in projects like when did that come about?

[00:03:58] I think I started doing projects from day one but then yeah you're doing kind of a mixture

[00:04:03] of commercial residential projects and then it was probably about four or five years ago

[00:04:10] where I just went nearly 100% on the projects.

[00:04:14] We still do one arm of our business, we do prestige homes

[00:04:18] but anything that doesn't have development potential

[00:04:22] and doesn't fit into our two natures we kind of pass that on to other agents

[00:04:26] but really the project space is where we're trying to focus more attention on that

[00:04:34] because that's what I love.

[00:04:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:37] No it's good and it's like anything isn't it when you can niche down

[00:04:40] and something that really helps you become a, not just a generalist

[00:04:43] but it can really become a specialist

[00:04:45] and you know you can really get to know all the ins and outs of projects?

[00:04:50] Yeah, we've got a bit of a saying.

[00:04:53] Developments that are niche that require a specialist agent

[00:04:56] and that's what I believe 100%.

[00:04:58] It makes a big difference having someone who can understand each step of the way.

[00:05:03] We've worked with developers from just the planning concept

[00:05:08] helping with the plans, the design through to selecting and build

[00:05:13] marketing collateral the whole way from start to finish

[00:05:17] and being a part of the journey with the developers

[00:05:20] it really helps to make sure it's going to be successful.

[00:05:25] Yeah, no that's good.

[00:05:27] And I think it's even like my own business

[00:05:33] we went on a similar journey used to do general building design

[00:05:37] of everything and anything and then decided you know what

[00:05:40] what gets me up in the morning is projects, developments

[00:05:44] so why not create a business where you get to do that every day, day in, day out

[00:05:47] and work with people, the type of people that you love to work with.

[00:05:51] I guess one big key thing obviously selling is one aspect of what you do

[00:05:55] but I think any type of project you're building that ongoing relationship

[00:06:02] especially with developers and people doing ongoing projects

[00:06:06] like the XAU, do you have much to do with helping developers

[00:06:11] when they are looking to do a project from an acquisition point of view

[00:06:15] or even just to help run their numbers from a feasibility point of view

[00:06:19] like just in terms of getting an idea of like you know resales appraisals

[00:06:24] because obviously that can be the killer

[00:06:26] at least when someone buys a development site that does not stack up

[00:06:30] from a development perspective like what are your thoughts around that

[00:06:34] how do you navigate that?

[00:06:37] Yeah I find wherever you're going to build it's good to know

[00:06:40] or very important to know that area and that market

[00:06:44] so we have some developers and builders that come from like two hours away

[00:06:49] and they think what they do in their area they can do in our area

[00:06:53] and sometimes it just doesn't work

[00:06:55] and because they're not in the market in the know

[00:06:59] like we've got privileged information dealing with buyers week in, week out

[00:07:03] so we know what prices properties are going to sell for

[00:07:07] we know what type of property the buyers are looking for

[00:07:10] and sometimes there's niches in the market where there's limited stock

[00:07:16] but huge demand and people can miss that

[00:07:19] we're quite good at accurately pricing projects

[00:07:23] before people start doing the plans

[00:07:26] and we also help developers when they've picked a block of land out

[00:07:31] that they're going to purchase

[00:07:33] whether it's before the purchase or after

[00:07:35] we look at every different scenario

[00:07:37] so sometimes it can be better and less risky

[00:07:41] and more profitable just to build one house

[00:07:43] sometimes it's better to put the duplex

[00:07:45] sometimes better to put three townhouses

[00:07:47] I've seen some developers that try to squeeze too much on

[00:07:51] it's probably like a three townhouse site

[00:07:54] but they try to squeeze four on

[00:07:55] and they made them too small

[00:07:57] and sometimes they're gone for three stories of stairs

[00:08:01] where the market is for mature age buyers

[00:08:04] and so really knowing the market and pricing accurately

[00:08:09] is very important to make sure they're not going to stuff it up financially

[00:08:14] yeah

[00:08:14] and obviously being a Kama boy, Kama local

[00:08:18] that's one of the areas you service

[00:08:19] and obviously it's where we're on based as well

[00:08:24] it's funny, I've found sometimes

[00:08:26] you look at a block of land for example in Kama

[00:08:28] like I saw this one site

[00:08:29] I ran a feasibility for three

[00:08:31] like a triplex versus a detached dual occupancy

[00:08:36] like two detached houses

[00:08:38] the numbers were way better

[00:08:41] way better for the detached dual lock

[00:08:44] so a lot of people just think volume

[00:08:46] but you're right

[00:08:47] volume doesn't always necessarily equal profit

[00:08:51] profitability

[00:08:52] well some of those better areas like Kama, Shell Harbour, Barrick Point

[00:08:57] the demand is for more prestige

[00:09:00] and detached or semi-detached properties

[00:09:04] they're a bit more luxury

[00:09:06] and there's definitely more profit

[00:09:07] at the moment in that sort of space

[00:09:09] yeah

[00:09:10] in terms of like let's talk about development team

[00:09:14] because I think every investor, developer

[00:09:16] obviously our listeners are people doing projects

[00:09:19] some starting out, some more experience

[00:09:21] but I think you've got to have a really good team

[00:09:26] I call it your dream team

[00:09:28] you've got to have a good team of people around you

[00:09:31] whether that be consultants, designer

[00:09:33] and I think having an agent that understands a particular area

[00:09:38] or a particular niche like his vital

[00:09:40] do you find that's key when dealing with people doing projects?

[00:09:46] what are your thoughts around that?

[00:09:48] 100% yeah

[00:09:49] so we've done some of our own projects

[00:09:51] and you've designed some properties for us as well

[00:09:54] and having the right building designer is very key

[00:09:59] in making sure the property you're going to buy

[00:10:02] you can actually build what you want to build

[00:10:04] before you purchase that land

[00:10:05] because the last thing you want to do is buy some property

[00:10:08] and then you can't do anything with it

[00:10:10] or can't do what you want to do

[00:10:12] so doing the checks up front

[00:10:13] having an accountant that specializes in projects

[00:10:16] the right structure

[00:10:17] so having the accountant's advice

[00:10:21] and then taking that to the broker you're going to deal with

[00:10:24] so having a broker that specializes in projects as well

[00:10:27] check their past history of clients and projects they've done

[00:10:30] some say they're specialized

[00:10:32] but really they just do mum and dad loans for houses

[00:10:35] so it's all got to work together

[00:10:38] because your structure may not match with the finance

[00:10:41] so the broker's got to be on the same page

[00:10:44] the right structure, the right builder

[00:10:46] I've seen people try to just focus on cost

[00:10:50] and they get stuck with some builders that take too long to build

[00:10:54] so their project cost blows out

[00:10:57] the holding costs

[00:10:58] so getting a builder that does good quality

[00:11:01] but also in a timely fashion it's very important

[00:11:05] an agent obviously that specializes in projects

[00:11:08] that can help sometimes you need one or two

[00:11:12] or bigger projects we've had to sell 20 or 50

[00:11:15] units off the plan before the project can even get off the ground

[00:11:20] so having someone that specializes in the projects

[00:11:23] for the pre-sales is important as well

[00:11:26] who else, I'll miss Nathan

[00:11:29] I think a key thing

[00:11:31] obviously every area is different

[00:11:33] and within different areas

[00:11:36] you get different obviously different buying pools as well

[00:11:39] how do you navigate early in the process of

[00:11:44] say working with an investor or developer

[00:11:46] or build a developer on

[00:11:48] in terms of like who should this project

[00:11:52] like who should our buying pool be

[00:11:54] and I'm guessing that can obviously entail

[00:11:59] then different levels of finishes and quality of build

[00:12:02] like are you, how deep down do you dive into that space

[00:12:07] early in the piece

[00:12:09] like from a selling point of view

[00:12:11] and obviously knowing you've got to sell that product

[00:12:14] in the long run

[00:12:17] Like mentioned before

[00:12:19] some developers out of the area come

[00:12:22] build without consulting anyone

[00:12:24] and they're gone and over invested 100 grand

[00:12:27] there was one, it was four townhouses

[00:12:29] and they put 100 grand extra on each townhouse

[00:12:32] which just didn't suit that market

[00:12:34] it was the cheaper part of the market

[00:12:37] of our area and it really killed the sale price in the end

[00:12:43] so we weren't selling that project

[00:12:45] but I've seen it happen

[00:12:46] and I've seen them over invest

[00:12:48] and the resale prices were very low

[00:12:51] and they probably didn't make any profit from that one

[00:12:55] and I've seen other ones go for like

[00:12:58] three story townhouses

[00:13:01] and they built like multiple three story townhouses

[00:13:05] with no lifts

[00:13:06] and really the target market for that area

[00:13:09] and that type of property would have been mature aged buyers

[00:13:11] and you've just wiped them all out

[00:13:13] having all those stairs

[00:13:15] so I think it's important to do the right standard of finish

[00:13:20] depending on the area

[00:13:21] so medium areas, we want a medium finish

[00:13:25] but sometimes you just got to make it a little bit unique

[00:13:28] so tweak up the kitchens and the bathrooms

[00:13:31] make sure the master bedroom has a nice decent en suite

[00:13:35] nice tiling, nice fittings

[00:13:37] decent walk-in robe sometimes too

[00:13:40] two walk-in robes, his and hers

[00:13:43] that really helps in those sort of medium to high end areas

[00:13:47] and then obviously the high end

[00:13:49] we want to make it a bit more unique and high fittings

[00:13:53] and really make sure that living area

[00:13:57] and kitchen is really functional

[00:14:01] in suiting those buyers what they want

[00:14:02] yeah, yeah

[00:14:03] and in terms of the actual, the end buyer

[00:14:10] that's massive isn't it

[00:14:11] because I think I look at

[00:14:14] where you look at your area

[00:14:17] which is sort of like Ilawara

[00:14:19] south coast of New South Wales

[00:14:20] like you look at the next 10 years

[00:14:23] like we've got a record number of baby boomers

[00:14:26] my parents generation, your parents generation

[00:14:28] who are either at the end of their working life

[00:14:30] or just retiring

[00:14:32] so we've got a lot of downsizes now

[00:14:35] like are you finding that really can dictate to the end product

[00:14:40] like what you're going to actually present

[00:14:43] like you said three story

[00:14:45] it's just not going to cut it to that downsizer

[00:14:48] yeah, yeah

[00:14:48] so the mature age buyers

[00:14:51] definitely part of the main part of the market

[00:14:54] where we're going to get great resale prices

[00:14:58] so yeah they're more fussy buyers

[00:15:00] so you do a cheap finish

[00:15:03] or you haven't allowed enough natural lights

[00:15:06] your living room's not big enough

[00:15:08] your dining and lounge

[00:15:11] it's very important to get all those areas right

[00:15:16] most of these buyers they've bought and sold several times already

[00:15:20] so they're trying to make sure this time they get it 100% right

[00:15:23] and it's all about sunlight

[00:15:25] and the aspects

[00:15:27] and the level of finishings

[00:15:29] workmanship is important

[00:15:31] but also presenting the property

[00:15:34] with professional styling

[00:15:35] is also very important

[00:15:37] to help the buyers to picture themselves living there

[00:15:40] and that's really been a big shift in the market as well

[00:15:46] which a lot of developers and builders are starting to agree with that

[00:15:50] yes

[00:15:50] you know it's hard

[00:15:51] with some developers builders you work with

[00:15:54] they're very fixated on the cost

[00:15:56] so they're trying to look at how can they save costs with the finance

[00:16:00] and building costs different ways

[00:16:03] to still make it quality

[00:16:04] but save a few dollars here and there

[00:16:06] but investing in marketing and styling is super important

[00:16:11] I mean today's age to really nail that to help push that price

[00:16:16] and we've seen amazing results because of that

[00:16:20] some projects we've worked on recently

[00:16:23] they just did a little tweak on the kitchen

[00:16:26] flooring, bathrooms

[00:16:27] and then the facade

[00:16:29] and they made sure they got all the important areas right

[00:16:33] and we've seen in at like 850,000

[00:16:37] price bracket sell for 950,000

[00:16:40] so there's 100 grand extra profit

[00:16:43] with minimal cost

[00:16:45] talking like 20 grand, 30 grand extra investment

[00:16:49] to hit 100 grand extra profit

[00:16:52] just hitting the market perfectly

[00:16:55] for what the buyers really want

[00:16:57] so I think it's important early on to really find out

[00:17:03] what's the perfect market to target

[00:17:05] like if we're just thinking

[00:17:07] we're going to target first-time buyers

[00:17:09] they're trying to scrape their money together to buy this property

[00:17:12] whereas somebody coming from Sydney down to our area

[00:17:16] they could have sold for 2, 3 million

[00:17:18] and then they're purchasing a $1 million property

[00:17:20] so they got the cash just to buy it outright

[00:17:23] they're not borrowing money

[00:17:24] and if you're hitting it perfectly

[00:17:27] with what they want

[00:17:29] with the workmanship

[00:17:32] and the floor plan

[00:17:33] and the styling

[00:17:34] you're really going to maximize the sale price

[00:17:37] and like I said

[00:17:39] there can be even in that price bracket

[00:17:41] 100,000 difference

[00:17:42] but then when you go to the next price bracket

[00:17:46] up over 2 million to the 2.5 million

[00:17:48] that can be 2, 300,000 extra profit

[00:17:52] on each duplex or townhouse

[00:17:54] or just getting all these things right

[00:17:57] talking to the right people

[00:17:59] even engaging a professional stylist

[00:18:02] to choose the tiles

[00:18:04] and the facade colors and finishes

[00:18:07] can really, really help push that profit up

[00:18:10] Yeah, that's great

[00:18:12] and look I think you hit some really good topics

[00:18:14] I wouldn't mind just honing in a little bit more on

[00:18:16] because I think they're really key parts

[00:18:18] of selling the product

[00:18:20] because like you said

[00:18:22] with the holding costs now

[00:18:23] interest rates

[00:18:25] holding costs on

[00:18:26] especially once you start to do larger developments

[00:18:28] or more prestigious developments

[00:18:30] even some duplexes like I've seen it

[00:18:32] like we've got clients that might pay

[00:18:34] a couple of mil for the land acquisition

[00:18:36] and then they might spend close to 2 mil on the build

[00:18:40] so the holding cost can add up

[00:18:41] so if they've got a product that looks amazing

[00:18:44] but it hasn't been designed well

[00:18:47] from an interior perspective

[00:18:48] or they haven't spent the money

[00:18:50] like you said on marketing or on styling

[00:18:53] the product can sit there

[00:18:55] it can be quite difficult to sell

[00:18:57] it's hard to sell the vision to people

[00:18:58] I guess let's just chat a little bit about styling

[00:19:04] like probably

[00:19:06] do you want to give us a bit of an idea of

[00:19:09] when would you start

[00:19:10] let's just talk a duplex

[00:19:11] or a smaller townhouse development

[00:19:13] let's talk in that

[00:19:14] let's just talk like a standard spec type area

[00:19:16] and then let's talk more of a

[00:19:19] you know a higher spec area

[00:19:21] when would you style like would you

[00:19:23] would you recommend styling regardless

[00:19:26] or what are your thoughts around

[00:19:28] like say if someone's got a project

[00:19:30] they need to sell

[00:19:31] they obviously want to get a good premium price

[00:19:35] when would you style

[00:19:36] well sometimes you can get away with not styling

[00:19:39] in cheaper areas and cheaper products

[00:19:42] we tend to steer away from that a little bit

[00:19:45] so pretty much nearly all the projects we do

[00:19:48] we want to stall one of the properties

[00:19:50] so if you've got a duplex

[00:19:52] we only need to stall one of them

[00:19:53] and do it properly

[00:19:54] like you can get stylists that will

[00:19:56] style a 250 square meter

[00:19:58] probably for three or four grand

[00:19:59] but it's probably not going to

[00:20:01] hit the mark properly

[00:20:03] for that type of market

[00:20:05] you probably more want to spend

[00:20:07] around five and a half, six thousand

[00:20:08] to style it properly with quality furniture

[00:20:11] and you know we've dealt with

[00:20:13] all different stylists

[00:20:15] and we've got our one we've stuck with

[00:20:16] for the last ten years

[00:20:18] and they just nail it every time

[00:20:21] they know what's going to suit that area

[00:20:23] and work together with us to

[00:20:25] nail the complete vision

[00:20:28] that we've started from start

[00:20:29] you know from just considering which

[00:20:31] type of block we're going to buy

[00:20:32] for what type of project

[00:20:33] to then you know them styling it

[00:20:36] to really hit that market properly

[00:20:38] so what were those costs again

[00:20:40] I think it's brilliant talking about things like cost

[00:20:42] because I think a lot of developers

[00:20:44] don't factor in these costs into their

[00:20:47] feasibility so what were you saying

[00:20:48] what was the price to allow probably

[00:20:50] for the larger jukeboxes

[00:20:52] it's around six grand to do it properly

[00:20:54] and houses as well

[00:20:58] up to 300 square meters

[00:20:59] you can probably get away for around six thousand

[00:21:02] but if it's something a bit smaller

[00:21:04] like 150 square meters

[00:21:05] you'll probably save a couple of grand on them

[00:21:07] and you're right, like when I go through properties

[00:21:11] I just enjoy doing it

[00:21:13] for the sake of doing it

[00:21:14] just to see how the people are doing things

[00:21:16] you're right

[00:21:16] like you're selling a vision

[00:21:20] aren't you to people

[00:21:20] like could I live in this house

[00:21:22] could I see myself in this place

[00:21:24] and if it's bare

[00:21:26] if it's just got no life

[00:21:29] and no homeliness about it

[00:21:31] like you're right

[00:21:31] like you don't

[00:21:32] it's really hard as a buyer

[00:21:35] to see yourself living in it

[00:21:36] unless you're very visual

[00:21:38] but not everyone's visual

[00:21:39] yeah if it's empty and still a bit dusty

[00:21:41] and dirty

[00:21:42] people are not getting that same feeling

[00:21:45] I kind of look at it as shifting

[00:21:48] your mindset in a way that it's a product

[00:21:51] you're selling a product

[00:21:52] yeah

[00:21:53] so if you're selling

[00:21:54] I don't go shopping for fancy bags

[00:21:57] but you know if you go to shops in Sydney

[00:21:59] where they've got Gucci bags

[00:22:00] they've got the lighting right

[00:22:03] they've got the places

[00:22:06] everything's perfect

[00:22:07] and then you're seeing extra value there

[00:22:12] or as if that bag was put in Kmart

[00:22:14] next to 10 other bags

[00:22:16] and you just grab it off

[00:22:18] the value looks a lot less

[00:22:20] so the property you're building

[00:22:23] we've got to kind of package it

[00:22:24] as a product

[00:22:25] you know show it in its best light

[00:22:27] yeah

[00:22:29] that's good

[00:22:30] that's good

[00:22:31] and look in terms of

[00:22:33] so in terms of that price

[00:22:36] then like how long is that property set up

[00:22:39] like is there a period of time

[00:22:42] that that property will be set up and styled

[00:22:44] is there like a limit on

[00:22:47] the time of having the furniture

[00:22:49] yeah all that sort of thing

[00:22:50] the only reason I ask that

[00:22:52] obviously I do projects myself

[00:22:53] so I'm thinking about that

[00:22:54] so I'm assuming if I'm thinking

[00:22:56] that there's probably people out there

[00:22:57] thinking the same sort of thing

[00:22:59] so obviously I'm sure

[00:23:00] you've found the last six months

[00:23:03] it's been a little bit at times

[00:23:05] it can be tricky to sell the

[00:23:06] sell product

[00:23:08] products

[00:23:09] just because the buying pool

[00:23:10] and the markets

[00:23:11] you know can be tricky

[00:23:13] how long you normally set up

[00:23:16] that styling for these

[00:23:17] the styling is normally six weeks

[00:23:20] the most important part is for the photos

[00:23:22] those photos if you're not

[00:23:24] sold in six weeks

[00:23:25] and you don't want to keep

[00:23:26] paying for the furniture

[00:23:27] because you can't extend it

[00:23:28] and pay a small fee

[00:23:30] week by week

[00:23:31] yeah

[00:23:32] but yeah generally six weeks

[00:23:34] you have the furniture

[00:23:35] and you know you can kind of half

[00:23:37] do it

[00:23:38] like you can try to

[00:23:39] small lads or we'll skip

[00:23:41] realestay.com

[00:23:42] we'll just go for Domain

[00:23:43] and other websites

[00:23:44] because then we can save

[00:23:45] a couple of grand

[00:23:46] and we can try to save on

[00:23:48] styling

[00:23:48] but you've only got one

[00:23:50] shot of making it for this impression

[00:23:52] so if you hit everything right

[00:23:53] day one

[00:23:55] we've found those projects

[00:23:56] we've sold quicker

[00:23:57] and for more money

[00:23:58] and so yes everything's

[00:24:00] at risk

[00:24:01] yep

[00:24:02] so the bigger the risk

[00:24:04] the bigger the reward

[00:24:05] yeah

[00:24:06] with any project

[00:24:07] but I think it's

[00:24:10] it's a calculated

[00:24:11] it's a cost effective

[00:24:12] risk to take on marketing and styling

[00:24:14] because where can you

[00:24:17] invest six grand

[00:24:19] and make a hundred grand

[00:24:21] profit

[00:24:22] or fifty grand profit off six grand

[00:24:24] if the marketing's

[00:24:26] three or four grand

[00:24:27] and they catch you

[00:24:27] fifty or a hundred grand more

[00:24:29] like I don't know

[00:24:30] there's no shares I've seen

[00:24:32] yep

[00:24:32] that does that

[00:24:34] yeah

[00:24:34] and potentially

[00:24:36] doing project sites

[00:24:38] you can

[00:24:40] invest smaller amounts

[00:24:42] and make larger profits

[00:24:43] but there's more of a risk there

[00:24:45] yep

[00:24:45] but for marketing and styling

[00:24:47] I can't see any

[00:24:50] better investment

[00:24:51] yeah

[00:24:52] now let's talk about marketing

[00:24:54] and I think that's brilliant

[00:24:55] what you just shared about styling

[00:24:56] and I agree

[00:24:57] like I've seen it from my angle

[00:24:59] the amount of people that don't want to

[00:25:01] spend money on styling

[00:25:03] they end up getting frustrated

[00:25:06] because their agent

[00:25:07] can't sort of get the prices

[00:25:09] that they're looking to get

[00:25:10] and I agree

[00:25:11] and I think getting an agent who

[00:25:13] has a long going relationship

[00:25:15] with a good stylist

[00:25:16] with a reputation of

[00:25:18] producing the goods is vital

[00:25:20] but in terms of marketing

[00:25:22] what sort of marketing do you recommend

[00:25:24] for sort of like a nice art quality

[00:25:26] duplex

[00:25:27] townhouse development

[00:25:28] in a nice area

[00:25:30] what sort of marketing

[00:25:32] what are we talking

[00:25:33] what are we looking at

[00:25:34] what sort of marketing you're finding

[00:25:35] pops

[00:25:36] attracts

[00:25:38] buyers

[00:25:39] and really puts that

[00:25:40] product up in front

[00:25:42] of people

[00:25:44] yeah so there's been

[00:25:45] a bit of a shift

[00:25:46] and I think

[00:25:47] probably the developers

[00:25:48] and agents

[00:25:50] in Brisbane and Gold Coast

[00:25:51] have been

[00:25:52] the leaders in this space

[00:25:53] but it's

[00:25:54] more for

[00:25:56] larger projects

[00:25:57] would be branding

[00:25:58] yeah

[00:25:58] and so

[00:26:00] creating a brand

[00:26:02] for the project

[00:26:02] naming

[00:26:03] all the marketing collateral

[00:26:05] just spending a bit more time

[00:26:08] and money

[00:26:08] packaging that together up front

[00:26:10] yep

[00:26:11] what it does

[00:26:12] it attracts

[00:26:14] people

[00:26:15] to that property

[00:26:15] yep

[00:26:16] in that project

[00:26:17] rather than having to always

[00:26:18] spend to reach out

[00:26:20] yep

[00:26:20] and so you end up spending more money

[00:26:22] by trying to do it cheaper up front

[00:26:25] with your marketing setup

[00:26:26] yep

[00:26:27] and so

[00:26:28] if you do the branding right

[00:26:30] you're just going to attract more people

[00:26:33] and people are going to want to buy it

[00:26:35] yep

[00:26:35] rather than you always having a portion chase

[00:26:37] and reach out

[00:26:39] and keep spending more and more

[00:26:40] to advertise

[00:26:42] so yeah getting that branding

[00:26:44] right

[00:26:45] and I've seen it even

[00:26:47] down to the smallest

[00:26:48] was

[00:26:49] you know luxury duplexes

[00:26:51] that we're doing

[00:26:51] by even coming up with a name

[00:26:53] like a luxury duplex

[00:26:55] yeah

[00:26:55] yeah and creating a brand around it

[00:26:57] yeah

[00:26:58] but you know

[00:26:59] four townhouses

[00:27:00] or bigger

[00:27:01] yep

[00:27:02] and obviously the bigger unit projects

[00:27:04] yeah

[00:27:06] creating that brand and naming

[00:27:07] is

[00:27:08] very key

[00:27:09] yep

[00:27:10] and so in terms of marketing

[00:27:11] are we talking

[00:27:13] obviously

[00:27:14] to some of them get to the point where they

[00:27:16] have like a landing page

[00:27:18] or a website

[00:27:18] or

[00:27:20] awesome

[00:27:21] you know really good

[00:27:22] video footage

[00:27:23] showcasing

[00:27:24] the project

[00:27:25] what are you

[00:27:26] what are you seeing

[00:27:27] what are you finding works well

[00:27:29] yeah so video is

[00:27:31] it's quite important for

[00:27:33] for larger projects

[00:27:36] yeah it's really selling the lifestyle

[00:27:38] is the main thing

[00:27:39] so showing off the area

[00:27:41] because a lot of the buyers can come from

[00:27:43] you know Sydney down to our area

[00:27:46] and so we're wanting to show

[00:27:47] what

[00:27:49] you know lifestyle they're going to have

[00:27:50] because it's not just the property itself

[00:27:52] it's everything around that you're buying as well

[00:27:54] yeah for that location

[00:27:56] yep

[00:27:56] yeah so the video is

[00:27:58] a big thing with proper drone footage

[00:28:01] and

[00:28:01] the property and

[00:28:03] creating 3D visuals

[00:28:04] yep

[00:28:05] yeah so there's a lot of great technology out there

[00:28:07] now where you can

[00:28:09] really show

[00:28:10] the property before it's even built

[00:28:12] yeah yeah cool

[00:28:13] and what about photography

[00:28:16] because it's amazing

[00:28:18] you still see some agents where they'll

[00:28:20] it's almost like they've used an iPhone

[00:28:22] like to take photos

[00:28:24] oh there's one I saw a project actually

[00:28:26] that took it off the iPhone the other week

[00:28:28] oh really

[00:28:30] I'm just yeah shook my head

[00:28:31] I think it sold for

[00:28:33] $200,000 or $300,000 under price

[00:28:34] oh wow

[00:28:35] it's just shaking my head

[00:28:36] yeah yeah and look

[00:28:38] whether that's been driven by

[00:28:41] the developer

[00:28:42] maybe not wanting to spend money

[00:28:44] but

[00:28:45] you're right

[00:28:46] it is an area

[00:28:47] especially once you start to do the nicer

[00:28:49] projects it's an area

[00:28:50] you just can't skimp out on is it

[00:28:52] yeah no

[00:28:52] you gotta get the right photographer

[00:28:55] we

[00:28:56] tend to steer towards

[00:28:57] one that do more of a crisp

[00:28:59] nicer finish

[00:29:00] rather than your standard

[00:29:02] wide and bright shots

[00:29:04] so on the finished product

[00:29:05] you wanna show

[00:29:07] a bit more creativity

[00:29:08] in your photography

[00:29:09] yeah

[00:29:10] rather than just your standard real estate shots

[00:29:12] yeah yeah

[00:29:13] and like you said mixed in with the styling then

[00:29:15] it can just

[00:29:17] bring it to life

[00:29:18] yeah that's right

[00:29:19] and it's true

[00:29:19] like I look when I'm browsing through realestate.com

[00:29:22] like

[00:29:24] if I've got a spare 5-10 minutes

[00:29:26] you never stop on the rubbishy

[00:29:28] looking projects that

[00:29:30] the photos are terrible

[00:29:31] it's just nothing appealing about it

[00:29:33] whereas you see those projects that

[00:29:35] yes a lot of them are really nicely designed

[00:29:38] but you can just tell that

[00:29:40] efforts got into the photos

[00:29:42] the quality of

[00:29:43] the way it's been outlined

[00:29:45] like it does it makes you stop and have a look

[00:29:47] yeah

[00:29:48] yeah you wanna capture their attention

[00:29:50] get them to stop

[00:29:51] but yeah the photography

[00:29:53] getting it right is very important

[00:29:56] we wanna get people that are just

[00:29:59] passive buyers as well

[00:30:00] not just active buyers

[00:30:01] so people that will be on

[00:30:04] Facebook and then

[00:30:05] this property pops up

[00:30:06] and then they think oh look at this

[00:30:08] they show their husband or wife

[00:30:10] and they're like

[00:30:11] we need to go see this

[00:30:12] I want it

[00:30:13] yeah

[00:30:13] you know that can create a sale out of nowhere

[00:30:16] by just getting that styling

[00:30:18] marketing right

[00:30:19] and it all works together

[00:30:21] like it's not

[00:30:23] just doing high quality

[00:30:25] finish of the building

[00:30:26] or high quality photos

[00:30:28] it's start to finish

[00:30:29] getting everything right

[00:30:31] yeah

[00:30:31] obviously

[00:30:32] doing it cost effectively

[00:30:33] but yeah it's a brand

[00:30:36] you're creating

[00:30:37] and there's a standard you wanna set

[00:30:39] especially for that medium to high end

[00:30:41] part of the market

[00:30:42] yeah

[00:30:43] and what about

[00:30:46] open homes for example like

[00:30:48] do you find the product you're selling

[00:30:51] obviously is to a particular demographic

[00:30:53] does that determine then

[00:30:54] what time of the day

[00:30:56] what day of the week

[00:30:57] you'd open up a home

[00:30:59] I'll give you an example and it wasn't you

[00:31:02] but I remember seeing one agent

[00:31:04] and he

[00:31:05] I remember talking to him

[00:31:06] and he's just like

[00:31:07] no one's coming

[00:31:07] but he was selling a house

[00:31:09] that's like a house that would suit

[00:31:11] like

[00:31:12] my like

[00:31:14] someone like myself or you

[00:31:15] like with kids our age

[00:31:16] yeah

[00:31:17] and I'm thinking mate

[00:31:18] 90% of kids are playing sport

[00:31:21] yeah this morning

[00:31:22] yeah

[00:31:23] I'm literally driving out my door

[00:31:25] to go watch sport

[00:31:26] like do you

[00:31:28] like do you think about

[00:31:29] like

[00:31:30] do you guys think about that sort of thing

[00:31:32] like do you find that's a key thing

[00:31:34] like in terms of looking at who your buyer is

[00:31:35] where it's a downsizer

[00:31:37] someone coming out from Sydney

[00:31:39] or a younger family

[00:31:41] like does that really dictate

[00:31:42] like when you show it

[00:31:43] like how that works

[00:31:44] yeah to a degree

[00:31:45] yeah like I think

[00:31:46] some people get too fixated on

[00:31:49] seasons

[00:31:49] you know should I sell in spring or summer

[00:31:52] yeah

[00:31:52] the past few years

[00:31:54] it hasn't

[00:31:55] really made a difference what

[00:31:56] season you're selling in

[00:31:58] yeah

[00:31:58] opposed to like

[00:31:59] you know 10-20 years ago

[00:32:01] the seasons were more important

[00:32:02] and then with timing

[00:32:04] of when do you do the open house

[00:32:06] if you're doing it 9 o'clock in the morning

[00:32:07] 10 o'clock in the morning

[00:32:09] every week

[00:32:10] and you're not getting the buyers

[00:32:11] and your target market is

[00:32:13] those young families

[00:32:14] yeah

[00:32:15] you probably need to look at

[00:32:16] maybe make it a little bit later

[00:32:17] yeah

[00:32:18] wait till the house finished

[00:32:19] yeah like between 11

[00:32:20] and 2 o'clock

[00:32:21] seems to be the best time

[00:32:23] yeah

[00:32:23] in our market

[00:32:25] some larger projects will even do

[00:32:26] 3 open houses

[00:32:27] yeah

[00:32:28] for the weeks

[00:32:29] we'll do a Thursday 5 o'clock

[00:32:31] yeah

[00:32:31] and then Saturday 10 o'clock

[00:32:33] Saturday 1 o'clock or 2 o'clock

[00:32:35] yep

[00:32:35] and so just creating more

[00:32:37] opportunities

[00:32:37] to attract all the buyers

[00:32:39] that's great

[00:32:39] but then

[00:32:39] if someone really

[00:32:41] really wants to buy that property

[00:32:42] they're going to book a

[00:32:43] private inspection in during the week

[00:32:44] yeah

[00:32:45] or in the afternoon on the Saturday

[00:32:46] when they finish the sport

[00:32:48] yeah

[00:32:48] so they're going to come

[00:32:49] regardless if they really want it

[00:32:51] but that passive buyer

[00:32:53] or should we go

[00:32:54] shouldn't we go

[00:32:55] and you open houses too early in the morning

[00:32:57] and you're missing the key buyers

[00:32:58] yeah

[00:32:59] you need to look at shifting that

[00:33:01] yeah

[00:33:02] now

[00:33:02] one of the things you do really well

[00:33:05] and you've obviously got a bit of a proven

[00:33:07] record in is off the plant sales

[00:33:10] yep

[00:33:11] both

[00:33:13] units, duplexes, townhouses

[00:33:15] what are some

[00:33:17] I guess what's your approach

[00:33:19] like what's your approach to

[00:33:21] off the plant sales

[00:33:22] what are some of the things you're

[00:33:24] you're looking to do

[00:33:26] or how do you navigate

[00:33:27] that off the plant mentality

[00:33:29] like it could be

[00:33:30] let's

[00:33:31] let's probably go

[00:33:32] let's probably get away from units for a moment

[00:33:35] which we can come back to that

[00:33:36] but let's talk say smaller projects

[00:33:38] like duplex, townhouse

[00:33:40] are you starting to sell off the plan

[00:33:42] well and truly before

[00:33:43] they've started construction

[00:33:45] or do you find like during construction's good

[00:33:47] how do you

[00:33:47] what's your approach generally

[00:33:49] what's your advice quite often

[00:33:51] if someone does need to

[00:33:53] or want to try and sell off the plan

[00:33:54] yeah

[00:33:55] like if you need to sell off the plan

[00:33:57] we probably need to

[00:33:58] look at doing some marketing

[00:34:00] and we need to get

[00:34:01] some really nice 3D visuals

[00:34:03] and have a nice clean floor plan

[00:34:06] but the way the market is right now

[00:34:10] doing it off market

[00:34:11] actually works better

[00:34:13] because if you're trying to sell too early on

[00:34:16] with a duplex or townhouse project

[00:34:19] you're finding you sit on the market too long

[00:34:21] and that can make it harder to sell

[00:34:23] so devaluing your property

[00:34:25] so we want to protect the asset

[00:34:27] and so doing it off market

[00:34:29] so we have all the marketing collateral

[00:34:33] the tools we need to sell it

[00:34:35] off the plan

[00:34:36] and we have that in our kit

[00:34:38] ready to go

[00:34:39] so when we're meeting clients

[00:34:40] that are thinking of selling

[00:34:42] and we're having a look at their house

[00:34:43] we find out what they're looking to buy

[00:34:45] we've got it there to show them

[00:34:47] and then we can say hey

[00:34:49] this isn't on the market yet

[00:34:51] but this is what we've got

[00:34:53] and this is the finish it's going to be

[00:34:55] explain the project, walk them through the plans

[00:34:58] we find just meeting buyers

[00:35:01] and potential sellers that are looking to buy

[00:35:04] and just showing them what we have off market

[00:35:06] is working the best at the moment

[00:35:08] and I think for most agents

[00:35:09] they just want to get your signature

[00:35:11] get it online so it looks like they've got

[00:35:14] lots of listings

[00:35:14] but really that sort of backfires on you

[00:35:17] and trying to get the...

[00:35:20] If you're not able to sell it

[00:35:21] Yeah because you don't want to do

[00:35:24] what's just best for you as an agent

[00:35:25] you really need to think what's best

[00:35:27] for the client

[00:35:28] and what's best for the client right now

[00:35:30] is selling it off market

[00:35:32] which takes a bit more time, bit more effort

[00:35:36] some properties we've been selling

[00:35:40] off the plan

[00:35:41] we're spending an hour with each client

[00:35:44] or each perspective client

[00:35:46] it's a whole hour to walk them through the process

[00:35:48] and you've got to do that over and over again

[00:35:51] for so many people to get the one sale

[00:35:53] so it's a lot more effort and time

[00:35:56] to sell an off the plan product

[00:35:59] and that's why most agents will steer towards

[00:36:01] just selling houses

[00:36:02] easy to sell, show them through

[00:36:03] bang, so I'll get paid six weeks

[00:36:06] whereas we just absolutely love projects

[00:36:09] love everything about it

[00:36:11] and helping clients get success

[00:36:14] through doing these small projects

[00:36:16] like duplexes and townhouses

[00:36:19] there's nothing more rewarding

[00:36:20] I think that's a good spot to jump into it

[00:36:22] like I always find it's refreshing

[00:36:25] when you're dealing with agents

[00:36:28] who actually have had skin in the game themselves

[00:36:31] like they've done their own projects

[00:36:32] or they're doing their own projects

[00:36:35] have you found doing your own projects

[00:36:37] your own development projects

[00:36:38] where you've not only sourced the land

[00:36:42] you've obviously executed the approval

[00:36:44] engaged a builder

[00:36:45] and then you've gone to the point of where you've then

[00:36:47] sold that development

[00:36:48] you've gone through that whole process

[00:36:51] do you find it is a lot easier

[00:36:54] to really put your shoes yourself in the shoes

[00:36:57] of your developer investor client

[00:37:01] when you've actually had the skin in the game yourself

[00:37:04] yeah, well before doing

[00:37:07] my own projects I helped a lot of clients

[00:37:09] achieve success in it

[00:37:11] but doing it myself

[00:37:12] you're really seeing all the nitty gritty

[00:37:14] in between parts

[00:37:16] like dealing with engineers and council

[00:37:20] and all the back and forward sorting things out

[00:37:23] yeah, yeah

[00:37:24] and the pressure of carrying vinyards

[00:37:28] and choosing the different materials

[00:37:32] you're going to put in

[00:37:34] and going through each step of the way myself

[00:37:38] has really, really helped me

[00:37:39] appreciate what builders and developers go through

[00:37:42] yeah, yeah

[00:37:43] and I guess once you've done that

[00:37:45] you can really develop a really clear plan of attack

[00:37:50] and you become sharper I think in what you do

[00:37:53] yeah, yeah

[00:37:55] excellent

[00:37:58] do you want to just share with us a few case studies

[00:38:00] always find the best thing

[00:38:02] it's always rewarding when you can share about some of your success stories

[00:38:05] like whether it be particular projects

[00:38:07] where you've discovered success

[00:38:09] I know one of the ones I've heard you talk about

[00:38:12] is the Blue Water project in Kuyama

[00:38:14] overlooking the surf beach

[00:38:16] yeah

[00:38:17] one of the prime spots in Kuyama

[00:38:19] maybe tell us about that one

[00:38:20] I know that was a really special one

[00:38:23] yeah, so we worked for other agencies

[00:38:25] before starting my own

[00:38:27] and that was in my hometown, Kuyama

[00:38:30] the main beach

[00:38:31] right in between the beach and all the cafes, shops

[00:38:36] and it was a great project site

[00:38:40] what I love about it is

[00:38:42] seven years later

[00:38:43] the building still looks brand new

[00:38:46] and so knowing the developer

[00:38:47] what sort of work he's done before

[00:38:49] now he's going to deliver a high quality finish

[00:38:52] each and every purchase that bought in there

[00:38:55] are more than stoked with what they got

[00:38:58] and some people that bought early on

[00:39:03] resold before it was finished

[00:39:04] and made profit

[00:39:05] I think he made $160,000 in one year

[00:39:08] that was when the market was a lot lower

[00:39:11] but he bought in his super

[00:39:16] and we resold it before he finished

[00:39:19] and to make good profit like that

[00:39:21] without having to really do much

[00:39:23] is great

[00:39:24] and we actually sold

[00:39:26] 20 of those units off the plan

[00:39:28] before it was finished

[00:39:29] out at 22

[00:39:30] and the only reason we didn't sell the other two

[00:39:33] was because the developer wanted to keep them

[00:39:34] until they were finished

[00:39:35] and then we sold one of those penthouses

[00:39:39] as a finished product

[00:39:40] got it all styled

[00:39:41] and the price was up there

[00:39:44] so we really loved working there

[00:39:47] you know, you're working on a project

[00:39:50] where you're looking over the beach

[00:39:51] it's always a bit nicer than

[00:39:54] back in the sticks

[00:39:56] or in suburbia

[00:39:58] where you're just looking at other properties

[00:40:00] so to be working on a beachside area

[00:40:04] in my hometown was really great

[00:40:06] Excellent, excellent

[00:40:08] look, it's been such a valuable session

[00:40:12] I'd love to get you back on

[00:40:13] definitely there's so many things we can discuss

[00:40:16] where do you stop

[00:40:17] on talking about these elements

[00:40:19] but look, I guess

[00:40:20] what are some parting things

[00:40:24] tips or advice you could give to say

[00:40:27] an investor or developer

[00:40:28] that's looking to potentially investigate

[00:40:31] doing a project in the Loire

[00:40:33] or on the south coast

[00:40:35] like have you got some thoughts around

[00:40:38] the starting point

[00:40:39] like if they haven't acquired a site yet

[00:40:42] they're looking to get a site

[00:40:44] what's some advice you could give to them

[00:40:47] we've helped a few first timers

[00:40:50] one of our clients

[00:40:52] we helped him secure the land

[00:40:54] and he built a duplex

[00:40:55] we helped him find the right builder

[00:40:58] and he made 260,000 first project

[00:41:01] then he went on to do another one

[00:41:02] now he's away

[00:41:05] he's got rid of his business

[00:41:06] he was running and now he just does projects

[00:41:09] he's got the freedom to spend time with family

[00:41:12] but I'd probably say

[00:41:13] don't get too greedy

[00:41:14] I think you can kind of get carried away a bit

[00:41:19] thinking oh if I just borrow extra

[00:41:21] I can build this bigger thing

[00:41:23] and make more profit

[00:41:23] I've seen the guys that have been the most successful

[00:41:26] have stuck to being a little bit more conservative

[00:41:30] doing smaller projects

[00:41:31] because they're low risk

[00:41:35] and you're not going to get yourself in trouble

[00:41:40] you can calculate it

[00:41:41] it's a calculated risk

[00:41:43] where you're making 100,000, 200,000

[00:41:48] per project

[00:41:50] so the smaller ones like duplexes

[00:41:52] are really key

[00:41:53] I think they're the best ones to start off with

[00:41:57] we've even had clients to start off with

[00:41:59] just doing a specky home

[00:42:01] getting a block and building a house

[00:42:03] and selling that

[00:42:03] and some people have made 50,000

[00:42:07] that's getting a little bit harder now

[00:42:09] the duplex in the right areas

[00:42:12] they're definitely what I would try to achieve first

[00:42:15] but I'd say speak to a building designer

[00:42:19] that specializes in projects

[00:42:20] speak to an agent that specializes in projects

[00:42:22] work at a game plan

[00:42:24] and then look at financing options

[00:42:27] you can literally do a project with $0

[00:42:31] nowadays if you've got the right people

[00:42:33] and I've got some clients

[00:42:35] where they're able to scale their development business

[00:42:39] they're up quite big now

[00:42:41] and they're in a position where

[00:42:44] they can't fail

[00:42:45] you've seen a lot of builders go broke

[00:42:48] like 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 builders go broke

[00:42:51] whereas these guys are taking the greed out

[00:42:54] and they're getting private investors to put in

[00:42:57] so that private investors are helping

[00:42:59] put in towards the land purchase

[00:43:02] and that way what they're borrowing from the bank

[00:43:04] is a lot less

[00:43:06] and there's also private finance

[00:43:08] there's ones that are a bit ruthless

[00:43:10] you don't pay on time

[00:43:12] there's fees and the interest rate goes up

[00:43:15] etc but there's some more friendly

[00:43:19] private finance people out there

[00:43:20] that are reasonable interest rate

[00:43:23] and some of those ones you're not paying any repayments

[00:43:26] until the product's finished

[00:43:28] it's all at the end

[00:43:29] and it doesn't cost a lot more to do that

[00:43:33] one project we're working on

[00:43:34] it's only like 5 or 10,000 extra

[00:43:37] and you're not having to fork out

[00:43:41] to pay all the interest up front

[00:43:42] like you do with some non-bank lenders

[00:43:44] and all the hurdles you've got to jump

[00:43:47] with a bank is quite difficult for some people

[00:43:50] because they're not going off your asset anymore

[00:43:53] they're going off your income

[00:43:56] and if you try to do 3 or more townhouses

[00:43:58] it's very difficult to get finance starting out

[00:44:02] because they're looking at that as a commercial loan

[00:44:05] and so to get financing

[00:44:08] can be quite difficult unless you talk to the right people

[00:44:11] get the right connections

[00:44:13] but I think if you own a home

[00:44:15] and you've got some equity, a good place to start to redraw

[00:44:19] on that that's how I've seen personally

[00:44:21] people sort of get ahead

[00:44:23] with life a lot quicker is they're redrawn on their home

[00:44:26] they're bought a block of land or a knock down

[00:44:29] and then they've got private finance

[00:44:31] because they couldn't get money off the bank

[00:44:33] and they've had a successful project, might profit

[00:44:37] and now they're on to the next one

[00:44:38] and look in terms of obviously your area

[00:44:45] what are some areas

[00:44:46] let's just say people wanting to do

[00:44:48] maybe like a nice suspect up

[00:44:50] duplex or triplex or maybe two detached dwellings

[00:44:54] have you got some key areas

[00:44:56] where you're finding the numbers are good

[00:44:58] looking good provided you can get the land for the right price

[00:45:01] and like you said you expect the project

[00:45:05] the appropriate way

[00:45:06] have you got any tips, hot tips on some areas

[00:45:08] that you think are really good for doing projects

[00:45:11] I think at the moment you've got to be a bit more creative

[00:45:14] sometimes in finding the right sites

[00:45:17] and the right type of projects

[00:45:20] because before you could pretty much buy

[00:45:22] any certain size block in some areas

[00:45:24] and build three townhouses

[00:45:26] and you're going to make profit

[00:45:28] and it wasn't really too much thinking

[00:45:30] just buy, build, sell

[00:45:33] but now with the interest rates up

[00:45:35] the building costs up

[00:45:37] there is definitely a shift in different types of properties

[00:45:41] that actually are profitable

[00:45:42] and so Shell Harbor Village

[00:45:47] Kymer areas we're finding

[00:45:50] and even further down the coast

[00:45:52] they're very good

[00:45:55] profitable projects and not too risky

[00:45:57] there's some high demand

[00:45:59] for all those type of products

[00:46:00] even though you're probably borrowing a little bit

[00:46:03] more than say a cheaper area

[00:46:06] and doing cheaper products

[00:46:09] it's actually not too risky

[00:46:10] because the buyers you're targeting

[00:46:14] are cash buyers

[00:46:15] and they want that type of quality

[00:46:17] so around the two to two and a half million

[00:46:21] resale price in those areas is really good

[00:46:25] attracting a good buyer

[00:46:28] I think once you get to around

[00:46:30] three and a half, four million

[00:46:32] you need to be a little bit more careful

[00:46:34] that's with the resale price

[00:46:37] there's a little bit more of a limited market there

[00:46:39] but the ones that are two to two and a half million

[00:46:42] I'm finding that's quite a niche market there

[00:46:45] and there's a lot of demand

[00:46:46] and nearly zero products of that

[00:46:50] and fortunate for us we've got a mutual client

[00:46:52] in my hometown at Bombay

[00:46:55] beautiful site

[00:46:56] I grew up there at Bombay for 25 years of my life

[00:46:59] looking at that north end of the beach with that break there

[00:47:02] and now we've got that duplex site there

[00:47:06] you sold that quick didn't you?

[00:47:07] like how? I don't know how quick you sold that site

[00:47:10] crazy quick

[00:47:11] there was a big demand for that

[00:47:12] and it was a win-win for everyone

[00:47:16] the people buying there

[00:47:20] they're going to get a great product, great value

[00:47:23] opposed to buying a house

[00:47:26] started construction, CDC, no council

[00:47:29] beautiful

[00:47:30] yeah so being mostly detached

[00:47:33] with the plunge pool at the back

[00:47:35] and then doing the design right with the main bedroom

[00:47:38] and the full bathroom downstairs

[00:47:41] and your kitchen lounge dining

[00:47:44] our fresco with the view

[00:47:45] all looking out to the ocean

[00:47:47] I think you can even see the blowhole

[00:47:48] yes you can see right into Kaila

[00:47:52] the lighthouse

[00:47:52] the iconic Norfolk pine trees

[00:47:56] the lighthouse

[00:47:58] the point at Bombay, magic

[00:48:01] so literally you could live downstairs

[00:48:03] as a mature age person

[00:48:05] and then for a family

[00:48:07] young family that's cashed up

[00:48:10] for mid-2 million

[00:48:12] they're getting an amazing quality product

[00:48:17] and you know they've got the bath

[00:48:18] with the window right there

[00:48:20] looking over the whole beach

[00:48:21] master room with the view

[00:48:24] I love every part about that project

[00:48:27] and those type of properties

[00:48:29] yeah they're great aren't they

[00:48:32] and like you said

[00:48:33] they can be quite profitable

[00:48:35] so I'm excited to watch that one unfold

[00:48:38] and I'm sure you'll be able to get back on the podcast

[00:48:41] to talk about how you did selling

[00:48:44] that one and styling it

[00:48:45] all that sort of thing

[00:48:46] we haven't even advertised it or told anyone

[00:48:49] we're already getting interest people asking

[00:48:51] that's brilliant

[00:48:52] and you're right, like when you get the right area

[00:48:55] you get that VIP type client

[00:48:58] they're not people who are fighting

[00:48:59] almost to get the right site

[00:49:02] yeah that's good

[00:49:04] what about

[00:49:06] how can people reach out to you

[00:49:08] what's the best way for people to contact you

[00:49:10] obviously I think there'll be a lot of people

[00:49:12] that will get a lot of interest out of this episode today

[00:49:15] how can people reach out to you

[00:49:17] what's the best way to find you

[00:49:18] yeah head to our website

[00:49:20] www.innovatepropertygroup.com.au

[00:49:22] or Instagram

[00:49:24] www.innovateproperty.au

[00:49:27] yeah check out our videos

[00:49:28] we're always wanting to

[00:49:31] provide valuable content for people

[00:49:32] so follow along

[00:49:35] check out other projects we're doing

[00:49:38] yeah

[00:49:39] it's been good to have you on

[00:49:40] cool thank you

[00:49:42] and look thanks for tuning in

[00:49:44] I hope you got a lot of value out of this session

[00:49:46] I've sure learnt a lot

[00:49:48] we'll make sure Mark's details are in all the show notes

[00:49:51] on all of our content

[00:49:53] all of our information but look if you really enjoyed this episode

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