A Developer’s Guide to Understanding Property Contracts with Nathan Battishall of Duplex Building Design

[00:00:00] As investors and developers, we see the world differently. This podcast uncovers the untold truths of what it really takes to become a multi-million dollar residential developer. I'm Nathan Battishall. Let's get to work.

[00:00:18] Well, welcome to the Residential Developer Podcast. My name's Nathan Battishall. I'm the host. And today I want to talk about a topic, something that's come to my attention a lot of times.

[00:00:29] And I've actually had a number of people over the last few months actually emailing me and asking if I could actually walk people through how to actually go through a contract of sale when it comes to doing a duplex or a dual occupancy via CDC.

[00:00:47] Now, obviously this is when you're dealing with an on-market property, but even when you're off-market and then you get to the point where contracts get drawn up, it's important to go through that contract.

[00:00:59] Now, quite often different people will come to me and they'll give me a contract and they'll want to see if a particular project, duplex or terraces or dual lock CDC can be carried out on the project.

[00:01:11] And before actually checking that contract, there's a whole bunch of different things that you need to check and you want to check.

[00:01:20] And I'm going to do another episode where we're going to go through my checklist that I like to go through to check the overlays, to check the permissibility, to check the LEP, the environment plan,

[00:01:32] just to determine if a dual occupancy is permissible in that area, to check all the overlays, to see if it's flood affected, bushfire affected,

[00:01:40] to check the acid sulfate soils, to check all the different elements, biodiversity, heritage, to check all the overlays, to make sure we,

[00:01:49] I always say you can do maybe 80 to 90% of the checks prior to getting the contract of sale.

[00:01:56] So that's, for me, that's my first layer of checks and I'll teach you how to do that.

[00:02:00] I'll teach you how to do a lot of that yourself.

[00:02:03] You still want to have consultants, planners, designers, certifiers, different moving parts and pieces around you

[00:02:11] and solicitors for checking a lot of these various elements.

[00:02:16] But I think it's important as an investor or as a developer, someone wanting to do projects,

[00:02:21] to get really good at doing a lot of your initial checks.

[00:02:24] Because what it means, it means you're not taking dozens and dozens and dozens of sites that just do not work to already busy consultants.

[00:02:35] And the reality is if you're using consultants who are not busy, there's probably a reason why they're not busy.

[00:02:40] It's because they're not good at what they do.

[00:02:42] Now, if you get good at doing a lot of your initial checks, it means you can cross out sites that just aren't suitable.

[00:02:50] And you know yourself, it's nothing worse than asking for a whole bunch of contracts from agents

[00:02:56] and then they're on your back to see if you want to buy that property when all you wanted to do was check and see if it was permissible.

[00:03:03] But sometimes what will happen, if you can do a lot of those initial checks, you might cross out.

[00:03:08] If you looked at eight sites, you might cross out seven of those eight from the very start purely because you went through that checklist of all the different elements that make a site possible, permissible and constraint-free or as constraint-free as you can.

[00:03:24] Meaning then that you only need to get that one contract for the potential site.

[00:03:28] Then you're putting your energy into one that truly looks suitable and potentially adequate to be able to be developed.

[00:03:35] So in this episode, I just want to walk it through and it's not going to be an overly long episode, but it's one that I believe will be beneficial just to help educate people on how to go over a contract.

[00:03:49] And I'm not going to go line by line.

[00:03:51] I'm not going to go ridiculously into depth, but I'm just going to go high level just around some of the things I look for and some of the things that I'm looking at when it comes to looking over a contract.

[00:04:03] Now, the contract of sale, or quite often you'll see it called a COS or a COS contract of sale.

[00:04:10] It encompasses a bunch of documents from a planning perspective that are very vital for planners, designers, certifiers to look at to determine if a complying development can be done and carried out across the property.

[00:04:26] So there's a few key things that I'm looking for and I'm just going to walk you through.

[00:04:30] And I've literally got a contract in front of me of a property that we helped a client secure.

[00:04:38] I looked over it.

[00:04:40] I helped them with a lot of the checks.

[00:04:42] So it's a fairly live product.

[00:04:45] So I've got it on my iPad here and I'm just going to walk through just some of the things I'm looking at early in the piece.

[00:04:52] Once I've done the initial check over that site, the client's done the initial check over that site.

[00:04:57] And we've determined that there's a very good chance that site will be likely possible.

[00:05:03] It's checked out from a constraint point of view.

[00:05:06] It's checked out from an overlay point of view.

[00:05:08] It's just a case of now going through the contract to make sure that there's no missing pieces.

[00:05:13] So generally a good way through the contract.

[00:05:18] Every contract is slightly different.

[00:05:19] It's got sometimes a little bit more information than others.

[00:05:22] But generally contracts are laid out in a very similar fashion.

[00:05:26] And at some point I'd love to get a solicitor to come onto the podcast and actually run through it in a lot more high level detail.

[00:05:34] A contract of sale, especially from a solicitor point of view,

[00:05:38] as it's obviously very key to have a good planning lawyer or a planning solicitor who understands development planning and conveyance

[00:05:48] so who can help you go through your contract.

[00:05:50] But I like to jump through and find the certificate of title or the title search.

[00:05:56] And there's a couple of things I'm looking for in that title search.

[00:05:59] That title search will show me if there's any covenants, if there's any restrictions on that site.

[00:06:08] It'll tell me if there's any caveats.

[00:06:10] Okay.

[00:06:11] It'll tell me some of that key information.

[00:06:13] It'll tell me as well if there's any registered easements on the property.

[00:06:19] So I'm looking at that.

[00:06:21] So the moment I see a registered easement or I see something that's relevant, like it could be to do with mining.

[00:06:27] There's a lot of parts of the hunter where there'll be elements in relation to mining that you'll definitely want to flag and check.

[00:06:35] But quite often you might see a covenant.

[00:06:37] And some of these covenants can be quite old, but it's important to read those covenants.

[00:06:42] So straight away I've looked at this contract.

[00:06:45] I can see there's a covenant on the site.

[00:06:47] So straight away in my mind while I'm looking at this contract, I know there's a covenant I have to read.

[00:06:55] If it doesn't say there's a covenant, well, that means there'll be no what's called an 88B attached because there's no restrictions or covenants relevant to this site.

[00:07:05] So that's the first thing I'm thinking in my mind.

[00:07:07] Okay, I've got to read that covenant just to make sure that that covenant doesn't hinder or impact doing a development over this site.

[00:07:16] So I've looked at that.

[00:07:17] I've got that in my mind.

[00:07:18] Okay, early on, I don't need to do that these days, but I encourage people just to write things down.

[00:07:24] Write the things you need to check down, you know, covenant, restriction.

[00:07:29] And it's generally only a one page, that title search.

[00:07:32] Sometimes it's two, but generally I've found it's just a one pager where it shows the name of the actual, who's on the actual registered title.

[00:07:42] It's got the lot number, the deposited plan, a whole range of information.

[00:07:47] So, but the main thing I'm looking for, as I said, is those key elements.

[00:07:50] Then generally straight after the title search, it goes to generally like your deposited plan, your DP.

[00:07:57] Now, the DP is really important because especially when you're doing developments under the low rise diversity code, let's just say a duplex, duplex, for example.

[00:08:07] Just because, and I've seen this so many times where a real estate ad will say the block is 594 square meters.

[00:08:17] I saw one where it said the block was, I've seen it a number of times where the block said it was 594 square meters.

[00:08:25] And I know to do a duplex in that particular council, you need 600 square meters.

[00:08:30] Or if it's 500 and it's 501.

[00:08:33] I've seen it both ways where the real estate was advertising it wasn't big enough, or I've seen it where the real estate's advertising that it's bigger than what it actually is.

[00:08:41] The advantage of doing this, especially when it's right on that borderline, is if it's right on that borderline, whether it be the width of the block, because you need the 15 meters of the building line, or if you need that square meterage to comply with the LEP, the minimum lot size to do a dual occupancy or to do a detached dual occupancy.

[00:09:01] The beauty of looking at the deposited plan is that I can then look at the registered size of that site.

[00:09:08] But it's not good enough just to rely on what the real estate says.

[00:09:13] I've even seen like there's different programs out there, like Near Maps, Archistar, Six Maps, Stash.

[00:09:21] You know, there's so many different tools and programs, some free, some paid.

[00:09:25] And I use a lot of these myself, but they don't always get the size of the site right, even the width of the site.

[00:09:31] Like I've seen it where it'll say that the block is 14.95 meters wide, but then I look at the deposited plan and it will actually tell me that it is in fact 15 meters.

[00:09:43] So I love to look at the deposited plan.

[00:09:46] Sometimes it's over a couple of pages.

[00:09:48] Sometimes you've got to really, it might be four or five pages because it could show 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, even a couple of hundred lots.

[00:09:57] So you've got to find your lot number.

[00:09:59] Again, if I like to write the lot number down just so I've got it there and I haven't forgotten it.

[00:10:04] No, I'm not looking at the wrong one.

[00:10:05] It's important to obviously be thorough in your due diligence.

[00:10:09] So if you don't know the lot number, just go to the first page of the contract.

[00:10:13] It'll have the lot number there or go to the certificate of title that I just mentioned earlier.

[00:10:18] And then I'm going to the deposited plan where it's going to show me the lot size of that property.

[00:10:27] It'll say the lot number.

[00:10:28] It'll generally have the length and the width of the site and it will have also the area.

[00:10:34] Now, because a lot of development and especially profitable development is happening in infill subdivisions,

[00:10:41] we're talking like older subdivisions, not newer subdivisions.

[00:10:45] And you'll find a lot of these subdivisions are measured in the old feet and inches.

[00:10:51] And I've even seen a lot of subdivisions where they're measured in the links, the old links metric.

[00:10:57] Okay.

[00:10:57] Now, the good thing is most deposited plans, you'll see, for example, the site I'm looking at is 50 foot by 50.1 foot by 101.

[00:11:08] Now, I know because I do it day in, day out, the 50 foot is 15.24 metres.

[00:11:13] So straight away, I'm clear on that.

[00:11:15] But if you don't, if you're not used to it, the good thing is these deposited plans generally have a table,

[00:11:24] like a calculation table where you can cross-check the feet and inches or the links versus metres.

[00:11:30] And it'll be there for you.

[00:11:32] So I'm checking the width of the block, the length as well, but especially the width,

[00:11:38] because I know under the low rise code, I know that I need to get that 15 metres width of the building line.

[00:11:44] And I'm also checking the area of the site.

[00:11:46] So for example, this site here, it's got 29 and three quarters P.

[00:11:51] Okay.

[00:11:52] So I'm then making sure I'm writing that down.

[00:11:56] I'm taking a note of that.

[00:11:57] And generally, you might have to flick a couple of pages,

[00:11:59] and then it will take me to a conversion table that gets added into the back of the deposited plan.

[00:12:07] And that's when I can cross-check the width.

[00:12:09] I can cross-check the length.

[00:12:11] I can cross-check the area to convert it into metres and then just cross-check it again,

[00:12:16] make sure that the area of the site complies with the LEP for the minimum lot size to do a dual occupancy

[00:12:25] or a detached dual lock, depending on what you're doing.

[00:12:28] Again, I'm making sure it's got that 15 metres of width.

[00:12:30] So I'm checking that.

[00:12:32] Now, if there's a registered easement, there'll also be generally a plan that will cater for that registered easement,

[00:12:40] just so I can get a little bit more detail of what that easement encompasses, what it involves,

[00:12:44] what's the easement for?

[00:12:46] Is it for drainage of water?

[00:12:47] Is it a services easement?

[00:12:51] You know, is it a restriction of use?

[00:12:53] There's all different types of easements.

[00:12:55] And the beauty is that plan will actually give you – it'll normally have like a little key.

[00:13:01] It might be like an N or it might be a different letter,

[00:13:04] and then it'll cross-check and tell you what that easement's for.

[00:13:07] It might say like drainage of water, stormwater drainage 1.5 metres wide or 1 metre wide or whatever it is.

[00:13:14] And I know then does that impact the block if it's running down the side of the block?

[00:13:18] Is that going to impact the block?

[00:13:20] Is it going to impact the minimum width of the side?

[00:13:24] If it's a 15 metre wide block and it's a 1.5 metre easement down the side,

[00:13:28] well, that can have a massive detrimental impact because you need the 6.5 metres width of each duplex under CDC.

[00:13:36] So that can really have a huge impact.

[00:13:39] Is it a backwards sloping block and you can't do absorption systems or any other type of drainage

[00:13:43] other than an easement system at the back?

[00:13:47] If the easement's there, well, great.

[00:13:48] Happy days.

[00:13:49] You know you don't have to negotiate an easement with the property owner at the back.

[00:13:54] And then if there's a covenant, if there's a restriction,

[00:13:58] generally after the deposited plan you'll find that covenant or the restrictions of use are there.

[00:14:05] And that's where you want to go through those in detail.

[00:14:07] Well, I find a lot of new subdivisions often have a lot of restrictions or positive covenants

[00:14:12] or different elements that you need to go through.

[00:14:15] And sometimes those restrictions can be things like only one residence is allowed on this block

[00:14:22] or it can be certain things that don't allow then for a dual occupancy or multiple dwellings

[00:14:29] or whatever you're looking to do.

[00:14:31] That's why it's so vital.

[00:14:32] And you obviously can't check those things without the contract or without downloading these documents.

[00:14:38] And again, this particular contract had a covenant.

[00:14:44] Now, some of these covenants can be quite old.

[00:14:47] And a lot of people think, oh, because the covenant is quite old,

[00:14:53] people think that it's no longer relevant.

[00:14:55] But the reality is if you look in the set, a lot of covenants are still extremely relevant.

[00:15:00] And it's important to go through those covenants with a good solicitor,

[00:15:05] a good conveyancer who understands property,

[00:15:08] but also to talk with designers and planners and different people who can check those covenants.

[00:15:14] One covenant I find, it's not common, but I do see,

[00:15:18] I have seen that covenant where it talks about,

[00:15:22] you know, there's covenants where it says only one, only one residence,

[00:15:26] only one residence is able to be on that site.

[00:15:29] So if that covenant's there, essentially you,

[00:15:34] that automatically can quite often trigger the fact that you need to then go and do

[00:15:39] development application or you need to see if it is possible to engage a solicitor

[00:15:45] to help you remove that covenant, which is not always possible.

[00:15:51] So it's important to read through the covenant.

[00:15:54] Quite often the covenants are,

[00:15:55] there's elements in it that just, that don't impact the development.

[00:16:01] But it's important to read through those and check with the planner,

[00:16:04] check with the certifier,

[00:16:06] and just make sure that that's not going to have an adverse impact.

[00:16:09] So once you've gone through that 88B,

[00:16:11] you then go to a really important document,

[00:16:14] which is the 10.7 planning certificate.

[00:16:19] Now, generally they'll put the part two.

[00:16:21] So it's the full planning certificate.

[00:16:23] They'll put in the contract.

[00:16:24] And that planning certificate is really important because it goes through a whole bunch of elements

[00:16:29] for us to be able to determine if we can do a CDC or not.

[00:16:34] And I've seen this where people have gone ahead and pushed ahead with the project

[00:16:38] without having some of these documents,

[00:16:40] especially if you haven't bought,

[00:16:42] if you've owned the property for a long, long time.

[00:16:44] If you have owned the property for a long, long time,

[00:16:46] all these documents that I've just mentioned,

[00:16:49] the certificate of title,

[00:16:51] the deposited plan,

[00:16:53] the 88B,

[00:16:53] and now the planning certificate,

[00:16:55] all of these elements you can pay for and download.

[00:17:00] Generally, it's about $300-ish, give or take,

[00:17:03] to buy these documents.

[00:17:05] And I recommend if you've owned the property for a long time

[00:17:07] and you're looking to do a CDC,

[00:17:09] spend the money first before engaging any consultants.

[00:17:14] Just to cross-check to make sure that this site is developable.

[00:17:18] So the main things I'm looking at in the planning certificate,

[00:17:21] I'm just going through it already.

[00:17:24] I've obviously, prior to even looking at this contract,

[00:17:26] I've checked the overlays,

[00:17:27] I've checked the zoning,

[00:17:29] I've checked all those elements out.

[00:17:30] So I know that works,

[00:17:31] but I'm still checking it.

[00:17:33] I can see there that dual occupancy is permitted.

[00:17:36] It's an R2 zoning.

[00:17:38] And then I'm going through,

[00:17:41] and there'll be a section on complying development.

[00:17:44] And I want to see the words may be carried out.

[00:17:47] It'll generally say may or may not.

[00:17:52] I always say you want to see the word may.

[00:17:54] You want to see the word may be carried out.

[00:17:57] Now, just because it says may be carried out,

[00:18:00] a lot of planning certificates from councils,

[00:18:02] council don't take ownership on it.

[00:18:04] They don't give you, they'll try and say,

[00:18:06] look, we don't have enough information

[00:18:08] to give you the answers.

[00:18:10] A lot of councils go to the length

[00:18:13] where they do tell you in black or white,

[00:18:15] yes, it can be done.

[00:18:16] No, it can't.

[00:18:17] It can't be for these reasons.

[00:18:19] It's coastal wetland protection area.

[00:18:21] It can't be because it's class one acid sulfate soil.

[00:18:25] There's different reasons.

[00:18:26] In this particular planning certificate

[00:18:29] that I'm using as an example,

[00:18:31] it says that it may be carried out.

[00:18:35] So the main things I'm looking for,

[00:18:36] I'm looking at the low rise diversity code

[00:18:38] for the duplex or the dual lock or the terraces.

[00:18:41] I can see that, yes, it may be carried out.

[00:18:44] I want to do a subdivision as well.

[00:18:46] So I'm checking the subdivision code

[00:18:47] and I can see it may be carried out.

[00:18:50] And I also want to do the demolition

[00:18:53] and I can see that it may be carried out.

[00:18:56] So I know, okay, that's great.

[00:18:57] That's looking good.

[00:18:58] And then you'll go through parts of the contract,

[00:19:04] I'm sorry, the 10.7 planning certificate,

[00:19:06] where you want to see the word nil,

[00:19:10] nil instead of yes,

[00:19:12] to do with elements affecting the site.

[00:19:16] For example, it says here,

[00:19:20] land reserve for acquisition.

[00:19:22] You want to see nil.

[00:19:24] You know, road widening realignment, nil.

[00:19:28] Flood related development, you know.

[00:19:32] Sometimes it'll tell you that there's flood elements.

[00:19:35] So straight away that triggers

[00:19:36] that you need to talk with a flood engineer

[00:19:38] or a hydraulic engineer

[00:19:41] to get some due diligence,

[00:19:42] to get them to check it further.

[00:19:44] If it says nil,

[00:19:45] well, you know there's no flood issues on the site.

[00:19:47] If it says there is,

[00:19:49] well, that flags straight away.

[00:19:50] You need to get some advice from a suitable qualified consultant,

[00:19:54] flood engineer to be able to check,

[00:19:56] just to confirm that there's no issues.

[00:19:59] And then you generally also want to buy a copy

[00:20:03] of a flood certificate from council.

[00:20:06] They never include a flood certificate

[00:20:08] or rarely include a flood certificate

[00:20:09] in a contract of sale.

[00:20:11] So they vary in price.

[00:20:15] Council to council,

[00:20:16] quite often I find around about that $100 mark.

[00:20:18] If it is flood affected,

[00:20:20] it doesn't hurt to get a copy of that

[00:20:21] just so you can give it to your flood engineer,

[00:20:24] have them check it over.

[00:20:25] Then it goes into bushfire.

[00:20:27] Is it bushfire affected?

[00:20:28] If it says no, great.

[00:20:30] Happy days again.

[00:20:31] If it says yes,

[00:20:32] doesn't mean you can't do CDC like the flood element.

[00:20:35] You can still do CDC provided

[00:20:37] that it meets the criteria.

[00:20:39] It just means that you need to talk

[00:20:41] with the suitably qualified bushfire consultant

[00:20:44] in this case to confirm

[00:20:45] if we're doing multi-dwelling terraces or a jewel lock,

[00:20:49] we need to make sure we can achieve

[00:20:50] about 29 bushfire rating or less.

[00:20:53] So we, again, straight away that triggers,

[00:20:56] talk to the bushfire consultant,

[00:20:58] get confirmation that it's suitable.

[00:21:00] Then it goes into a whole range of things.

[00:21:03] Loose fill asbestos insulation,

[00:21:05] nil, mines subsidence, nil.

[00:21:06] Again, a lot of the areas in the hunter,

[00:21:09] various different areas,

[00:21:11] there can be mines subsidence.

[00:21:12] So you want to check that out

[00:21:14] to determine if,

[00:21:15] is that going to impact the development

[00:21:17] from a mines subsidence point of view?

[00:21:19] The good thing is when it says yes,

[00:21:21] straight away this planning certificate is triggering,

[00:21:23] you need to do the due diligence

[00:21:25] and check these elements.

[00:21:27] And it just goes into all different things,

[00:21:29] biodiversity, nil.

[00:21:31] So because I've been reading these planning certificates

[00:21:34] for a long time,

[00:21:35] I'm looking for the word nil, nil, nil, nil.

[00:21:38] And if it says yes,

[00:21:41] it straight away triggers,

[00:21:43] I need to do some due diligence.

[00:21:44] Okay?

[00:21:45] So you just work your whole way

[00:21:47] through that planning certificate.

[00:21:49] You're looking for all of those elements

[00:21:50] where it's saying nil.

[00:21:51] If it's saying yes,

[00:21:52] you then need to look further

[00:21:54] with often consultants

[00:21:56] to confirm if it's permissible.

[00:21:59] And then after you go through

[00:22:00] the planning certificate,

[00:22:02] it'll then go through the Sydney water.

[00:22:05] If you're in the Sydney water area

[00:22:07] or depending on where you are,

[00:22:08] Central Coast, Hunter, Shoalhaven,

[00:22:11] you know, different areas across New South Wales,

[00:22:13] you'll see a diagram that shows you the sewer.

[00:22:18] Is there sewer nearby?

[00:22:19] Is there a connection nearby?

[00:22:21] You'll have some vital information around the sewer.

[00:22:24] It's important as well just to determine

[00:22:27] and it's good to chat with a builder.

[00:22:30] It's good to chat with someone

[00:22:31] who's switched on and skilled in that space.

[00:22:33] If you're looking to do a Torrens,

[00:22:36] can you get your services?

[00:22:38] Can you tap your services in?

[00:22:40] Just so you know what type of subdivision

[00:22:43] you're looking to do,

[00:22:44] Torrens or Strata.

[00:22:45] Is it possible?

[00:22:46] Are we able to get the falls?

[00:22:48] You want to look at that information early on.

[00:22:50] You'll be able to see the sewer diagram.

[00:22:52] That sewer diagrams is on there as well.

[00:22:55] So you want to make sure and, you know,

[00:22:57] you want to factor in if there's a sewer running through the site,

[00:23:00] is it permissible to be able to encase that sewer?

[00:23:03] Is it feasible to encase over that sewer?

[00:23:06] So you want to factor all of those things.

[00:23:08] Is there inspections that are going to impact driveways?

[00:23:11] All those sorts of things.

[00:23:13] So this is just a high level,

[00:23:16] just little workshop on how to look through a contract of sale

[00:23:21] before you give it out to your consultants.

[00:23:23] It just enables you as a residential investor or developer

[00:23:27] or builder developer,

[00:23:28] just to really get good at actually doing a lot of your own cross checks

[00:23:33] so that you can do some of those moving pieces

[00:23:35] before talking with your consultants.

[00:23:37] Just so you've got a good high level understanding

[00:23:40] and you can ask the right questions.

[00:23:41] And it doesn't hurt for you to have that knowledge

[00:23:43] so that you are an extra set of eyes in that process.

[00:23:47] But I always, always encouraged people to obviously go through it,

[00:23:52] but make sure you've got a good planner or designer

[00:23:55] who understands development,

[00:23:57] who understands approval,

[00:23:59] who can check that all for you.

[00:24:00] And obviously make sure that you're engaging and using a solicitor

[00:24:05] who really understands contracts and property,

[00:24:08] who understands,

[00:24:09] even ask your solicitor if they've got a bit of an idea

[00:24:14] around the complying development.

[00:24:16] Get them to check some things.

[00:24:17] Don't be afraid to ask them some questions.

[00:24:19] And if they're not the right solicitor,

[00:24:22] find someone who is a little bit more specialised in property.

[00:24:24] Get on property chats,

[00:24:25] talk to people who've used a good property solicitor,

[00:24:28] someone who understands that sort of thing,

[00:24:30] who can check those covenants for you.

[00:24:32] Can that be that extra set of eyes

[00:24:34] to make sure that you're not buying yourself a headache.

[00:24:38] So look, I hope you've got a lot out of this session.

[00:24:41] Feel free to, if you've enjoyed this episode,

[00:24:44] feel free to share it with friends, family, people around.

[00:24:47] And don't forget to like and subscribe.

[00:24:49] So thank you for listening in.

[00:24:51] I hope you've enjoyed it and I'll see you next week.